ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

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white belt
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by white belt »

@the_platypus

Sounds like the Amish.

the_platypus
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by the_platypus »

@white belt, yes it could be close to them, in some respects. But with the Amish, I think for most people there is a reflexive judgment of inferiority, weirdness, or backwardness. No culture is a perfect example, but other cultures may have much we can learn from.

Obviously, what is really important in life (what makes a culture successful) is, to my mind, sustainability and happiness. People (not necessarily you) who scoff at the Amish may need a more broad, cross-cultural education. Perhaps, if one were to study the Ladakh, the San, the Hadza, the Okinawans, the Sardinians, the Aran Islanders, etc, etc, etc ... one would come to the realization of ... the aberration/evolutionary mismatch of modern culture ... the broad conditions under which human happiness is attainable ... the need for technology to be at the "human" level ... the need for people to be generalists with a variety of work ... the need for movement/sun/community/etc.

Basically, these data points serve to create a counter narrative to the Myth of Progress. Having this knowledge could allow one to break free of their feelings of superiority. This would allow one to truly see the value and joy of these cultures (they are, by many accounts, genuinely happier than people in the West). And, therefore, there'd be reason to learn from them and implement their broadly egalitarian, sustainable practices.

mooretrees
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by mooretrees »

@Jacob, are you finding that book useful? I recently read Grain By Grain https://www.amazon.com/Grain-Quest-Revi ... 216&sr=1-1, and it was very inspiring, though a little short on how others might make a similar difference in their own community.

I guess I'm following the latter path you noted and hoping to bring others in but not get bogged down in 'community' bs. My initial attempt to increase local food resiliency is in its infancy so too soon to say if it will work. My idea, from a local farmer, is to work on building a local mill. Seems really ambitious but I'm curious to see where it goes. I think the next few steps are gathering information from other mills and seeing if any local wheat farmers are interested. Will report back if there's anything to share.

jacob
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by jacob »

@mooretrees - TBH I didn't find its solution space tremendously overlapping with my own proposed solution space. (I don't think local food is a 100% solution. In particular, I think it's a highly risky proposition as the continual local famines over the centuries would suggest.)

It was interesting to see the backstory of the movement. I traveled in some of the same circles pre-ERE and I recognize many of the names from 20 years ago.

mooretrees
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by mooretrees »

Thanks, likely won't buy it as my local library doesn't stock it. Also, your listing of the steps is likely enough to get one started. I'm finding personal stories of change inspiring, but not always pertinent to a different location. I don't think local foods are "THE ANSWER" either, but it is interesting to think about ways to increase my and my valley's local food.

J_
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by J_ »

In "garden log" @jennypenny wrote: "Sometimes I wish I'd never found ERE, or learned about climate issues, or the problems in the food system, etc etc. I want to be able to turn off that part of me that's always keeping a running tally of how much waste I'm producing and how much energy I'm using. Every time I buy an avocado I wonder how many thousands of miles it traveled to get to my kitchen counter. We bought a souvenir plastic beer bat and popcorn bucket at the Phillies game last week and I felt terribly guilty afterward. [what's the mental version of an ear worm? idea worm? ha, probably 'conscience']"

The end of straight logic: we do not consume energy at the moment we are buried or burned. But we live, we want a life which suits us. And we have a conscience. A conscience which has adopted a lot of environmental requirements to cope with in a wise manner.

I had a same feeling as jennypenny about my behavior in life. What about living each year in the same two or three places in Europe? It is not frugal but it are rather modest residences I own or rent. I love them because of the different societies, languages I immerse myself in. The very different climates and nature to be in and the different outdoor sports I can do in such nature are the adventurous magnets which pull me. I travel between them by public transport. I do not need a car at those residences. Nature and groceries are on walking distance. (I hardly travel to other places).

I have made peace with my conscience. I will change my behavior as I change or my capacities are not sufficient any more. Or as my curiosity leads me to other places or activities. Or other changes in the world make this way of living unwise.

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jennypenny
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by jennypenny »

@J: I still struggle with that question. I would routinely swing wildly between feeling despondent that my actions don't even equate to a drop of water in the ocean and feeling despondent for my kids futures and wanting to do everything I can to inspire change. Then it occurred to me that both involved feelings of despair, and IMO despair is not just soul-crushing but sinful.

I'm in no position to change the world and don't have the chops to do so anyway. I also know that what I do in my own life is mostly an eco-frugal indulgence that doesn't move the needle. But I have to live somewhere on that scale, and I want to live in a way that brings me peace and joy. I was watching The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai a few weeks ago (don't judge :P ) and something clicked. What I want to be is a blue blazer irregular. I want to live according to [what are we calling ERE 1/2?] principles while constantly honing my EREcraft and readying myself for whenever circumstances change enough for me to apply my skills in a larger arena.

My small efforts matter in that they bring me joy mentally, physically and emotionally, and confirm for me the idea in Lewis's quote "Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.” Through my example, I'm also slowly dragging my cohort down this path. And when the opportunity arises, I don my blue blazer and preach the ERE gospel. (Deep down, I think I like the idea of a growing secret army of EREs scattered around the planet, living gently but diligently to ready themselves for what's to come. 8-) )
Last edited by jennypenny on Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

7Wannabe5
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jennypenny:

Great post. I think feeling that way sometimes is somewhat unavoidable for those of us who tend towards becoming bloated-in-adult-feminine-energy AKA taking on responsibility beyond authority and/or limits of vigor/patience/bright-optimism (sigh.) However, I would note that it is possible that some of these feelings may shift a bit as your own children age into their 30s and beyond. I'm currently kind of split between thinking/feeling that the Millenials (my 30-something kid's generation) are actually going to be the older generation the kids-of-future will look to when dealing with the ultimate ramifications of the predicament after I am dead or completely decrepit AND/OR thinking/feeling that the disadvantaged young students I am teaching in an already collapsed urban/rural setting are the current victims of the meta-crisis. For instance, his frustrated homeroom teacher described one of my second grade students as "feral animal" in behavior and appearance, but just the other day, I showed him the symbol for multiplication and began to teach him how to use it. It felt just like clearing a very small bed free of weeds in the garden. Our Kids. Nature. The Library. I don't know how anybody can be bored in early retirement with such a fuck ton, endless regress of work to be done in these realms if you widen your pespective even the smallest bit beyond Just Future You.

J_
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Re: ERE Blog post: Ecological capitalism and consumer capitalism

Post by J_ »

@jennypeny: Thank you, Helpful, Written with love and compassion. You inspires me.

@7/5 inspiring too, thanks.

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