Early Retirement Extreme Forums

BRUTE wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:47 pm

brute thinks it would be interesting to see a system where school was completely voluntary, classes were more modular, and maybe cost (some) money - just to keep humans out of classes that don't actually want to learn those topics.

You mean college?

I once interviewed for a phd position where I was asked why I wanted to go to grad school. When I said it was because I wanted to teach people who were really interested in the subject and that I thought the only place that was possible was at the university, one professor couldn't help informing me how naive I was wrt random students. I later confirmed this when I was TA'ing undergraduate physics majors. Only about 30% were actually interested in those voluntary and self-selected modular classes that they paid [their own] money for. The other 70% were there because they needed "a degree" in order to get a job. So I guess, technically, it was only voluntary in spirit, not in application.

Of course, 30% is a lot better than the 5% found in high school (which is also voluntary, but free, and only somewhat modular).

Point being, it's impossible to create a system in a society that uses education for other reasons than learning (e.g. selling credentials or regulating the influx to the labor markets). In other words, "nature" finds a way.

jacob wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:13 pm

it's impossible to create a system in a society that uses education for other reasons than learning (e.g. selling credentials or regulating the influx to the labor markets).

maybe that's the crux. what is it that turns education into status seeking? something in the culture. it feels similar to consumer culture.

In other words, "nature" finds a way.

My sentiments exactly. Those who want to be rich will be rich and those who want to engage in other pursuits, that may or may not be beneficial to their desired income strata, will find a way. If you live in a western democracy, you’ve already hit the lottery.

Yeah, what's the point of working towards universal literacy now that we got youtube and poop emoticons.

@7 - And this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqX4oYZA5aQ

Fun fact: The actual/adult cash registry requires less numeracy than the toy model.

https://youtu.be/A3oIiH7BLmg

Psychologist Professor Philip Zimbardo explains how our individual perspectives of time affect our work, health and well-being. May explain some of what motivates the 9%, students, and the poor.

is this the same Zimbardo who faked the Stanford Prison experiment?

Yeah, what's the point of working towards universal literacy now that we got youtube and poop emoticons.

Oh. Were we working on universal literacy? How can you tell?

Graduation rates dropping. Graduation requirements dropping. California university system dropped the Algebra requirement for Bachelor's of Science degrees, because high school math is beyond what they are capable of teaching to their students. Which of the trends that led to here were supposed to bring us universal literacy? And should we just keep going down this path that has led us here?

Don't get me wrong, good intentions are nice, and appreciated. But they are no substitute for a working system.

The whole concept of literacy now escapes me. A formalized system of spelling words wrong seems to have developed and proliferated, as though there is now a standardized way to be illiterate i.e. you can be ostracized for spelling a word wrongly if it does not comport to the generally accepted way of spelling it wrong. It' a weird deconstructive event. When I try to follow the comments section on an instragram or twitter post I can't understand it because I'm not properly literate in the new illiteracy as it seems that people are actually communicating and understanding one another in some hybrid English. This is not like jazz improvisation where you have to learn the rules to break them. These are people who never learned the rules making rules. You need someone like Derrida to explain this shit.

You need someone like Derrida to *try* to justify this shit.*

Although some bellyfeel the new lingo to be doubleplusgood.

I had a college professor who tested his microphone by reciting Lewis Caroll from heart and I used to think why not just wear a sign that says "Did not touch a bare tit until a Post-Doc" but I knew it came from a genuine love of language. And obviously, no one is going to confuse me with John Fucking Houseman. But I don't see that here. It's come to a point where I'm seeing English letters but reading a foreign language. It's not playful, or creative or fun or witty. Maybe someone will say it's impressionistic, that between the letters and emojis and punctuation a sentiment is being communicated. I'm not a linguist but it seems like a technological version of hieroglyphics and I'm pretty certain that's at least a few etymological steps in the wrong direction.

So either Jason is too old/square/unhip to get it, or he is a bulwark for high culture defending against the dismal tide of Philistinism. In your younger headier days, could you have thought you would become the latter?

The silver lining in a culture that caters to the lowest common denominator is that an artist who is courageous enough to thigmotropically channel high thoughts around the banality of everyday life à la Shakespeare may really have the chance to shine, because he is at least different. Speaking of bare tits, that reminds me of when a Brazilian woman whispered something into my ear in her (actual) foreign tongue. I could only smile and reply “Language is the house of being.” She was titillated, if only because what I said was novel to her.

Hey, I love "The Wire." Which admittedly, is the paid subscription television equivalent of saying I have a black friend.

And I don't mean to jack this thread as I'm not sure it is relevant to the specific topic, but I admit to agreeing with Allan Bloom and his belief that there is a Western Literary Canon. But I have believed this since I was a teenager and unlike his co-hort Saul Bellow, I would never ask "Who is the Tolstoy of the Zulus."

But enough of this of this theorizing. I have to go help my sponsor child with his spoken word project.

Give your sponsor child a copy of Le Rouge et le Noir or Martin Eden so he will know the hard work and alienation that awaits him. Keep his American Mind from closing.

Jason wrote "It's come to a point where I'm seeing English letters but reading a foreign language."

Hey, don't you say that about some of 7Wannabe5's posts?

@Jason



https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetry ... e=6&page=5

Sam Harris´s newest podcast episode " Universal Basic Income "touches on many of the topics discussed in this tread .

@ET120

The difference is that with 7W5 I would say "I'm READING (as opposed to SEEING) English WORDS (as opposed to LETTERS) but NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE FUCK SHE IS SAYING (as opposed to READING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE)." So the divide is conceptual, attributable to either her fucked up way of expressing herself or my reading comprehension skills or combination thereof. But since she is typing standard English words using basic rules of grammar, understanding can be reached if both parties put in a good faith effort.

I have problems with certain authors, Cormac McCarthy for instance. I have tried numerous times to get through one page of Blood Meridian but can't. I am reading English words in standard grammatical form but have no comprehension. Come to think of it, he's like the 7W5 of great American authors. I bet Cormac McCarthy reading 7W5 is like me reading the bumper sticker "Gas, Ass, or Grass, Nobody Rides for Free." Although that might be a bit of an exaggeration as I have had the benefit of it reading it on my car for all these years.

7Wannabe5 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:23 pm

@Jason



https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetry ... e=6&page=5

Self-conscious, experimental nonsense, written by a pseudo-intellectual of Jewish extraction. I can read my own blog for that type of bullshit.

But I guess I see your point.

@Jacob:

Zukofsky's "Little" is possibly the most challenging novel I ever read. Wouldn't make my top 100 list, but worthwhile. Saul Bellow, OTOH, I love him so damn hard, I was going to name my DD27 Augie. You should give "No Country for Old Men" a whirl, bit more approachable. The novelist I have great trouble with is Nicolas Sparks, due to the little bit of vomit that kept coming up when I attempted to read "The Notebook."