The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

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7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Riggerjack wrote:You know, this is true of all music, but strangely, only symphonies need taxes, while everyone else uses subscriber support. What is wrong with symphonies that they can't provide services other musicians can?
Eh, I think you are looking at it backwards. Other musicians have to depend on only subscriber support, because they are not valued enough to earn the votes necessary to get public support. For instance, imagine a referendum with a Pick One voting option for .0001 millage:

1) Support the Symphony Orchestra kindercamp.
2) Support Gangsta Rap instruction at Junior High level.
3) Support renovation of parking lot at Bluegrass Festival Park grounds.

Odds that (2) would be the winner?

Also, for instance,there are many more people who spend money to send their daughters to ballet class, than purchase season tickets to the ballet themselves. And there are also many people who would slap their kid on the back of the head if he received a D in English, even though they never visit the local library themselves.

Mister Imperceptible wrote:You are correct in saying that many are paying for the difference. They pay for things they cannot afford with money that does not even exist. They pay until they are ruined. And then they denounce capitalism as evil. Boo hoo!
I would note that the well-able-to-pay-for-it guys I hang out with complain about most women all the time too. They would prefer it if most women were as "Garden Fresh Tomatoes-Pay What You Please" in their sexual functioning as me. They don't get that I am just too distracted by more interesting things, such as systems theory or 18th century novels, to always be minding some cash register while brushing my hair. OTOH, if they want empathetic listening, for that I will have to charge market rate, because very life energy draining. Like, I would rather be woken up from dead sleep in the middle of the night in order to provide sex AND a sandwich on demand, rather than empathetic listening, but people always seem to want what you don't want to give them (sigh.)

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

@7WB5

No complaints about women here. It just amuses me that the widespread irresponsibility by both sexes becomes the foundation of a political “philosophy.” And because I suggest that their chickens have come home to roost, I must be a racist homophobe who wants to destroy the environment, or whatever.

Superficial joker to the ballerina: “We are all Keynesians now.”

Kriegsspiel
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Kriegsspiel »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:14 pm
OTOH, if they want empathetic listening, for that I will have to charge market rate, because very life energy draining. Like, I would rather be woken up from dead sleep in the middle of the night in order to provide sex AND a sandwich on demand, rather than empathetic listening, but people always seem to want what you don't want to give them (sigh.)
:lol: That reminded me of a quote I had written down (where intercourse stands for communicating):
For every complaint that women have about how we try to get sex from them, we can make a similar point about how women try to get emotion from us:

1. Don't just snap your fingers and say, "Open up."
2. Though you may feel a strong urge to 'do it,' men are different. Intercourse does not always have to be in and out, back and forth. Men value and enjoy non-verbal intercourse, like being understood and accepted for what they are, not what they say.
3. You can't force intercourse and expect your man to enjoy it. You might force him to fake an understanding just to get it over with.
4. Men will not hop into emotional intimacy with just anyone. Men know that women are always ready to get into somebody's head. You must convince him that he is just not another piece of mind.
5. You should let him be on top sometimes. Men are tired of being in the inferior position, especially in hot and passionate intercourse.
6. Don't perform tricks that make him feel inadequate. Remember that you have been raised with more skill in intercourse than he has.
7. Men were taught that only women are supposed to enjoy intercourse. Help him not to feel guilty and weird for doing it.
8. Let him take control sometimes. Don't insist on controlling whose needs must be met when.
9. Don't talk and tell. Don't get him to 'put out' and then rush to your women friends with the intimate details.
10. If your thrusting and probing hurts him, stop immediately. Don't assume that he'll start to like it just because you do.
11. Allow him to initiate. Don't hit on him with so many requests for intercourse that he never feels the urge to start intercourse at his own pace, according to his own needs.
12. Men are often shy and insecure about their flaws and blemishes, about whether you will find them attractive. Don't expect your man to show you everything right away.
13. Remember that good intercourse is not a wrestling match. There should be no winner and no loser.
14. Respect your lover as an equal partner. You don't own him; he does not exist for the sole purpose of providing your pleasure.
15. If you have ever abused him during intercourse, understand that it may take a long, long time for your man to open up to you again.
16. Keep in mind that men's and women's rhythms are different. Don't get angry if his needs don't coincide with yours.
17. If you simply want to release tension, let him know. Don't pretend that you're doing it for him. Men often resist intercourse if they feel pressured about 'getting into it'
18. There is no such thing as the ideal lover. Don't try to make your partner into something he isn't. Accept your man as he is.
19. Foreplay is essential; gentle stroking of the ego can help. If you encounter a ravenous ego, remember it is ravenous not because it gets too much healthy attention, but because it gets too little.
20. Don't get hung up on achieving simultaneous understanding. Men's understandings take longer, but they are usually more intense.
21. Respect him in the morning

7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Kriegsspiel:

Lol- But, I wasn't joking (remember rare bird female rational here.) For instance, recently a male friend was relating an important life anecdote, and he said "I suppose that was cowardly of me...?" and I was thinking "Yeah, pretty much." and I couldn't think of anything nice to say instead, so I just offered him a cookie. And on one occasion, the last seriously F male I dated, offered to give me a back massage, and then once he had me pinned down, started complaining about his recent experiences with the domineering D.B who was on same foundation board as him. So, I was pretty much forced against my will to make affirmative noises. My standard is supposed to be that if you want that level of feminine service from me, there better be a ring on my finger, and some joint equity, but my boundaries are too weak and semi-permeable.

Peanut
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Peanut »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:19 am
@7w5:

-1 for suburbs...

In my experience the large city orchestra players are much better than the small town players. I think this is a combo of the extremely high competition for paid orchestra positions and the level at which leading orchestra players are expected to consistently perform. It's almost as stark as the difference between professional and amateur sports. Is this indicative of cities vs. rural populations in general or simply a quirk of the modern orchestra? Only the forums have the power to decide.
No question.

I used to play in a small town 'professional' orchestra in high school. It paid very little, $30/concert. And I'm no virtuoso. But in a small town you need to tap into a wider array of talent to fill 80-odd parts. The vast majority of us were neither professionals nor even music teachers. Our concertmaster was both and paid significantly more and he did not live in our city. We were tapping into bigger city talent.


It's news to me that symphonies take taxpayer money, and I'd like to see some data on that. They are, like churches, mostly non-profit and so enjoy those tax benefits. But they are mostly funded by personal and corporate philanthropy. It seems a straw man to argue the tax dollars of the poor are being exploited to benefit the rich concertgoer. Symphonies do perform free concerts for low-income kids regularly too.

I doubt most concertgoers are trying to impress anyone, including themselves. Especially 7w5, who has so much going on it makes my head spin. Very few are going to sit through two hours of what most consider boring music just to shore up status when there are far more obvious and public ways of doing that.

It's true symphonies are having a hard time these days maintaining large enough audiences and they may fade out of existence. So be it. Fortunately I enjoy many kinds of music and my city provides live venues for them too.

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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by jacob »


Kriegsspiel
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Kriegsspiel »

"One of the most refreshing things about living in Europe (or small towns in the rural US) is knowing that the poor aren’t condemned to a completely separate, and inferior, life. Your place in the world isn’t wholly defined by wealth."

....

We have very different ideas of what the word 'refreshing' means.

BRUTE
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by BRUTE »

the homelessness situation in SF is pretty fucked up.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Based on a couple conversations I have had recently, I wonder if this is in part due to a growing disconnect between hiring and training. Apparently the number of people trained and available for entry level jobs in technology is greater than demand, but employers are willing to pay top dollar for any individual who has the exact combination of skills and experience for the position they need to fill RIGHT NOW.

From "Scale", West
Just as bounded growth in biology follows from the sublinear scaling of metabolic rate, the super-linear scaling of wealth creation and innovation (as measured by patent production, for example) leads to unbounded, often faster-than-exponential growth consistent with open-ended economies. This is satisfyingly consistent, but there's a big catch, which goes under the forbidding technical name of a finite time singularity. In a nutshell, the problem is that the theory also predicts that unbounded growth cannot be sustained without having either infinite resources or inducing major paradigm shifts that "reset" the clock before potential collapse occurs...

...Theory dictates that such discoveries must occur at an increasingly accelerating pace; the time between successive innovations must systemically and inextricably get shorter and shorter...

...This is clearly not sustainable, potentially leading to the collapse of the entire urbanized socioeconomic fabric.
So, the purpose of these articles in "The Atlantic" and "Wired", might be early warning sirens put out by intelligent NF types (emotional intuitive-tending towards neurotic self-doubt/blame), at the first sniff of smoke in the air. They aren't meant to detail a practical plan of action. They are just the modern equivalent of "Look. The birds fly low and the cattle are restless."

The map is not the territory. The bleeding edge is not the map. Until it is.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

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It is the stillest words that bring on the storm. Thoughts that come on doves’ feet guide the world.

Smashter
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Smashter »

A couple years ago, I crashed at my brother in law's for a month while moving to San Franciso. He lived in a luxury high rise in the rapidly gentrifying Mission District. Anytime I went out on the balcony, I looked out upon a full-on tent city. There had to have been at least 20-30 people living on the sidewalk next to the building. It was rife with drugs, public urination, and fighting, including one epic standoff between a guy wielding a bicycle tire and another who was swinging a baseball bat. That got bad enough for the cops to be called.

Speaking of bicycle tires -- I was surprised to find that they are used in much the same way as cigarettes in a prison. They seemed to be the universal currency of the homeless. You could estimate how long a tent would stay in one place, presumably flush with drugs, by the pile of tires stacked next to their tent. It goes without saying that leaving your bike outside, no matter how well locked, was foolish.

The car break-in situation was insane as well. Anytime you went for a long walk you would see at least one car with a side window smashed in. I once saw a note on a car outside my building (in a pretty good area, keep in mind) that read -- "I swear to god there is nothing of value in here. My car has been broken into three times. Please just stop."

The whole city was a jarring juxtaposition. It was a weird and sad place to live. I was very happy to move out.

Riggerjack
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Riggerjack »

It's news to me that symphonies take taxpayer money, and I'd like to see some data on that. They are, like churches, mostly non-profit and so enjoy those tax benefits. But they are mostly funded by personal and corporate philanthropy. It seems a straw man to argue the tax dollars of the poor are being exploited to benefit the rich concertgoer. Symphonies do perform free concerts for low-income kids regularly too.
You are right.

Back in the nineties a friend was working on Benaroya hall, the new Seattle symphony building. It has some very cool accoustical properties, and at the time, I was playing with soundproofing, so it was interesting. It was built with $115 million, in public and private funds. So public funds and symphonies have been connected in my head, since. But that wasn't accurate. Seattle symphony is funded by tickets and donations.

Oops. :oops:

7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Riggerjack:

Don't feel bad. I very easily could have conjectured something similar in reference to sports stadiums. People who attend symphonies and baseball games tend to spend a good deal of money in other establishments when they venture downtown. In small towns, similar investments are made by business associations. For instance, the business association in the small town where I raised my children gathered funds to purchase a bubble machine for the apple pumpkin festival.

bryan
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by bryan »

@Smashter, so interesting because I think SF, specifically the mission area, is my favorite area I've ever lived/hung out in, so far. It's one of the reasons I'm so torn on being for/against rent control, zoning, etc.

I didn't talk in length with too many homeless folks during the period I was sleeping feet away from them (so take this with a grain of salt), but I think easy-to-use public/private/charitable services like toilets, showers, charging stations, mailing address, storage locker, etc. would improve everyone's condition _vastly_.

And of course there are the separate issue of mental illness, healthcare, etc. Lots of loonies, sick among the homeless around SF.
Smashter wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:21 am
Speaking of bicycle tires -- I was surprised to find that they are used in much the same way as cigarettes in a prison. They seemed to be the universal currency of the homeless. You could estimate how long a tent would stay in one place, presumably flush with drugs, by the pile of tires stacked next to their tent.
You were just seeing a chop shop (they are operated inside the tents). Bicycle tires are definitely not currencies among the homeless. You were probably seeing bike traffickers (logistics). Maybe you could consider them like aluminum cans (they have some redemption value at certain tents?)?

For whatever reason enforcement of this stuff has not been great. Might be slowly moving to effective citizen reporting -> immediate response (e.g. there is a 311 smartphone app to report stuff like double/illegal parking, submit photo evidence and details).
Smashter wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:21 am
It goes without saying that leaving your bike outside, no matter how well locked, was foolish.
Certainly there are major issues with bike theft (I've had one stolen while locked; suggestions to have a good lock and a cheap bike), but you see more bikes parked around here than most cities in the US. It's a bit much to say it's foolish to use a bike in a normal fashion: "Nobody Goes There Anymore, It’s Too Crowded"

Smashter
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Smashter »

@Bryan thanks for correcting me on the tire issue. I definitely extrapolated a bit too far there.

On rereading, my post was too harsh. There is still a lot to love about SF. I lived in Noe Valley, so right above the Mission. I had some good times in both areas.

The homelessness just really got to me. On one of our final days, a woman, unprompted threw a heavy padlock at my wife. It barely missed her head and slammed into the bricks behind her. Just...wtf! I see homeless people in NY in LA, but nothing like that has ever happened in those places. To me, the problem is on a different level in SF.

And yeah, good point on the bikes. I'm sure no one wants to leave nice bikes out in any big city, and the place is bike friendly as a whole.

Riggerjack
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Riggerjack »

Don't feel bad. I very easily could have conjectured something similar in reference to sports stadiums
An oddness of being me, I don't feel bad about being wrong, as soon as I correct it. So going back, establishing that taxes are not supporting symphonies, and correcting my model of the world; just makes my model more consistent with the world, which feels good. (Yes, I know I am the only one who operates like this. :? )

But an interesting point. At about the same time benaroya hall was getting built, we were building two new stadiums, using the new model. Have a referendum to support teams with taxes to build new stadiums, and when that fails; do it anyway by way of city politicians reminding people they have no will, no power, and no say in the matter.

Or maybe others felt better about being consulted, before being ignored, and overruled.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Riggerjack wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:37 am
An oddness of being me, I don't feel bad about being wrong, as soon as I correct it.... and correcting my model of the world; just makes my model more consistent with the world, which feels good. (Yes, I know I am the only one who operates like this. :? )
You are not alone RJ. “A foolish consistency....”

7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Ditto. I think all reasonably mature rationals function in this manner. Better fishing pole or better map of fishing holes always welcomed.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I am starting to believe that there really may be something new and disturbing at play with the populist movement in the U.S. Twice now in recent weeks, I have been verbally insulted or called out as a member of aspirational or intellectual class. Nothing like this has happened to me since being picked on for nerdiness way back in the 6th grade. On both occasions, the remarks were made on the basis of nothing except maybe observation of my appearance and/or diction/vocabulary. I was not engaged in anything remotely resembling political action or conversation. Both incidents took place in a very blue-collar inner ring suburb.

On the first occasion, an older man went off on a sort of bitter, sarcastic take along the lines of "I must be somebody who went to Harvard. La dee dah." On the second occasion, I was called a Princess by a female coworker because I was attempting to comply with hazmat policy at the garden center. I suppose that following hazmat policy while cleaning up spilled toxins could be stretched into supposition of "tree hugging liberal", but I don't believe that Princess label would be applied to, for instance, Riggerjack, under the same circumstances.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I guess this is particularly disturbing to me, because I've almost always been the sort of person who floats around fairly freely from one lunch table to another. Also, I don't get how distracted slob with a very bad dye job signals "Princess."

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