Ethics and Viruses

[EdithKeeler]

@EdithKeeler, I knew employees in the US have ridiculously few holidays, but I didn´t know about the limited sick time thing. In Europe employees are much better protected in that area. In Holland, where I live and work, I can report sick and my employer can basically do nothing for a week or so (at which time they can demand that I go see a doctor that will report to my employer). I can be sick for months and my employer has to continue paying my salary (most companies have insurance for these kind of scenarios). As far as I can see, this system does not give rise to widespread abuse. And only the worst of workaholics go to work when they are really sick.

Actually, in the US we have the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) which protects our jobs if we get really sick or have to care for a loved one, etc. It's a good law, but employers actually don't have to pay employees during that period, technically. I am fortunate in that I have short term and long term income protection with my employer--because of my longevity with the company, if i got really sick I would get paid 100% of my salary, I think it's for 8-10 weeks, something like that, before my long-term disability kicks in (66% of my salary for... a while--can't recall how long. A year maybe?). I just wanted to mention that it's not SO dire as I described... but it does make it hard to stay off work when you have something more minor but contagious. (Not everyone has those benefits I described, though--everyone who works for an employer with 50 or more employees in a single location has FMLA, but individual companies have their own leave programs--or none. I think my brother gets a week of sick time total, and then has to go to long term disability at a percentage of salary. Mounds of paperwork with everything, though.

[EdithKeeler]

To give some more context, I have two little kids, one going to daycare, the other to primary school. In the winter season, they (and therefore my wife and I) have colds on and off. I am perhaps with a cold one third of the time. In 90 percent of the cases the symptoms are mild. So what should I do? I believe it would be unfair to my employer and my teammates if I would be off sick one third of the time...

If symptoms are mild and you don't have a fever, you're probably not contagious. I would certainly go to work in that scenario, but would still tend to stay in my cubicle as much as possible, explain to people why I'm not shaking hands, and keep a lot of hand sanitizer and lysol spray around, wouldn't use the community coffee pot, etc.

I worked with a woman years ago who came to work with active PINK EYE, which is very contagious. About a third of the office got it. She kept telling us she had "allergies," didn't go to the doctor for several days (pretty much when we are all like "go to the damned doctor now").

[Farm_or]

This is why the handshake is such a stupid cultural gesture. But in these parts, most people look at you sideways when you offer a fist bump.

[EdithKeeler]

This is why the handshake is such a stupid cultural gesture. But in these parts, most people look at you sideways when you offer a fist bump.

Well, it made sense when people were showing that they lacked weapons.

I think fist bumps are goofy, too, actually. I just say “I’m sorry, I’m not shaking hands because I might be coming down with a cold” (even when I’m not, sometimes...) . Why do we have to touch each other anyway. A nod and a “pleased to meet you” is fine with me.

[theanimal]

Why do we have to touch each other anyway. A nod and a “pleased to meet you” is fine with me.

It seems to me that touch is a fundamental animal behavior when engaging with those deemed friendly. Those who are enemies or threats, are not touched in the wild.

Personally, I feel awkward when I am greeting a friend or family member after some time has passed between seeing them and no touch (via handshake or hug) occurs. I'm not necessarily advocating for this to happen to everyday or those we see everyday, but on a sporadic basis I really don't think it's all that bad.

[EdithKeeler]

Personally, I feel awkward when I am greeting a friend or family member after some time has passed between seeing them and no touch (via handshake or hug) occurs. I'm not necessarily advocating for this to happen to everyday or those we see everyday, but on a sporadic basis I really don't think it's all that bad.

I agree re. friends and family. I just don't think the business handshake with someone I'll see sporadically is really all that necessary. i have a couple of people I do business with that I see maybe once or twice a year who insist on hugging me. That's super awkward to me, hugging relative strangers in general, and a little creepy as i'm a woman and they are men. I much prefer a handshake to a hug, but let's just keep our distance when flu is going around.

[Lemon]

Interestingly for all the contagion risk basically every doctor here feels massively guilty for being sick. Especially if they were meant to be on call as they know it can leave a team super stretched or just no covered at all. So there is very much a 'work though it if not bad' attitude. The only exception being D&V which is very strictly no return until 48 hours symptoms free. Not that they don't make feel guilty about it still, you just get less quizzing. Which does feel a little screwy.

I learnt this was not how the rest of the world works with my 4 month desk job where I came in with a mild cough (felt fine) and I got sent home.

We are all supposed to be flu vaccinated. Uptake is variable, which I find frankly nuts but it hasn't yet become a fitness to practice issues. Personally I think if you refuse and then get flu and give it to a patient...well pretty poor practice in my eyes.

Legally they can't ask for proof for a work week (same as other Euro countries from this thread) then they can demand a doctors signature.

HR use formulae to root out suspected malingerers based on when sick leave happens (Fridays, Mondays, near holidays are suspicious) and how it is take. So 5 individual random days is worse than a week off at once. But if sick sick the package looks over generous to me (long time on full pay, then half pay for even longer then if you really can't work ability to take you pension immediately with no actuarial penalty).

[Stahlmann]

Sorry for treating forum as Bravo column, but I'm not retired yet and I spent [much of] my life energy elsewhere.

I've got problems with my hand skin.

1) I give handshake -> I can infect somebody, but I'm cool. [The problem is that interrupting the first phase of contact is a big no-no..]
2) I don't give handshaske -> I'm not cool -> I need to defend myself -> I'm not good in playing "Bro, you don't wash yourself!11onen Looser!" and giving good answer. -> This drives me to insanity.
3) They will find on their own way -> They will talk behind my back. -> Not bad as people tend to be not so direct about problems [in my presence].

Thoughts?