sexual misconduct

[Riggerjack]

Ok, it looks like the appeal to global perspective didn't work. No offense, Jacob, but I would expect you to be in the same boat as the rest of us guys with no real experience with this.

So let's try a different take. One of my favorite places comes through again:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/04/ag ... arassment/

Instead, since we’ve chosen a narrative where one side can only ever be a victim and the other can only ever be perpetrators, we’ve made it impossible for anyone to see both perspectives. Self-interested men worry only about how to avoid allegations, self-interested women worry only about how to make sure all allegations are believed, and nobody worries about how to make a system where they expect fair treatment no matter which role they find themselves in.

The solution is to treat harassment the same way we treat terrorism. It’s something that’s bad. It’s something that some groups might do more often than other groups, but this is not the Only Relevant Factor About It, and we are suspicious of people who seem more interested in stereotyping the groups involved than in making sure everyone of every group gets justice.

And once we get good evidence that someone is guilty, we have drones bomb their house. Seriously, the terrorism model has a lot going for it.

It's a bit deeper than that, but still a good read.

[jennypenny]

If the culture is truly changing and we are finally choosing to believe the accusers unless there is some credible reason not to, then yes, Trump has to be held to the same standard and has to go.

[distracted_at_work]

believe the accusers unless there is some credible reason not to

Pouring one out for the justice system tonight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

[7Wannabe5]

Diverging off topic.. but what would a target person be doing in such a situation which might push you over the edge to make (physical/verbal/otherwise) contact? Smiling, earbuds in ear, reading a book, looking bored, gazing dreamily into the distance, leaning/open body posture, a look of shock as they notice something about you, checking out your feet/shoes, holding a token of conversation ("I love X!"), etc? During the #vanlife I noticed that if I'm just killing some time at a bar reading a book (somewhere approachable like at the bar instead of a table), there's a decent chance some person will have the confidence/curiosity to interrupt my reading . Nice though, as stranger conversation is probably more enthralling than whatever I'm reading. Similarly, if you are dancing by yourself earnestly, others will approach and dip their toes into the possibility of initiating something. Public situations e.g. bus rides seem much more costly/risky, but seems like it's a market where one could profit.

It's very hard for me to answer this question because from my perspective the market is completely out of whack because a chubby old messy woman whose estate consists of a 40 year old camper parked on a vacant lot in a decrepit neighborhood can pick up attractive men on the internet easier than shooting fish in a barrel, so I would only approach men in a public setting if something else was at play. However, I have recently noted that I seem to be receptive to conversation if somebody tells me that I have a cool backpack, even if that somebody looks exactly like Santa Claus, and therefore the fact that maybe he is hitting on me means that maybe I really do look like Mrs. Santa Claus now (sigh.)

The market seemed much more egalitarian to me 30 years ago when I was a college student living among peers who were almost all also single and there was no internet dating. I think this might be a factor, because in a culture where families no longer involve themselves in the process; school, work, dating specific venue, or public setting would be the options for meeting/macking, and some people seem to be slower on the uptake that work is no longer an acceptable option unless you are very, very careful. I mean, if Matt Lauer had been outed simply for adulterous behavior for which he found partners on Seeking Arrangements, or even Craigslist, that would be gossip-worthy, but not likely to be directly causative of career collapse, until/unless his employers determined how it played in audience-poll. However, I would also note for the record that internet dating sites are very strict about booting off participants that cross the line of acceptable behavior based on complaints, but there is also likely some site out there on which any sort of behavior anybody found acceptable would be considered acceptable.

[bryan]

Thanks. I've always been curious if one could consistently breach the wall of stigma/risk in public, in a good way. I mostly figure it would be folks with 100% charm or risk-takers (or have little to stake) that try.

The office dynamic is interesting, especially, because on one hand harassment happens and it sucks. On the other a lot of people legitimately meet in the office (it's like the main source of friendships in cities for folks just out of university). Then there's the incorrect notion that it's not possible to have one without the other that has become a dumb talking point (but a source of amusing tweets)..

[jennypenny]

New York mag article that does a good job of pointing out the difficulties in confronting harassment ... What Was the Washington Post Afraid Of?


Workplace harassment is so much more difficult to deal with. From the article “A longtime employee of CBS has told the Post that you approached her from behind at a company party and said, ‘Grab my dick. I’m hung like a horse.’ ” If a guy does that at a bar, you can oblige him but squeeze it hard enough that he never bothers you again. If it's your boss, however, and he does it at a company function, you can still respond the same way but it might have serious consequences.

^^ I wish more women appreciated the value of FU money in situations like this.