White supremacy run amok

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Spartan_Warrior
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White supremacy run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Hundreds of neo-Nazis, KKK, the alt-right and other white supremacists have gathered in Virginia for what the Southern Poverty Law Center calls one of the largest hate-rallies in decades.

So far they've marched carrying tiki torches, shouted "Jews will not replace us", surrounded a church where civil rights leader Dr. Cornel West was giving a speech, and plowed a car into a crowd of protesters.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3406210

This is what comes of coddling the ridiculous narrative of white male persecution.

Curiously this also happens to be the one day our President is logged out of Twitter. (ETA: Never mind, I see he's made some tepid and non-specific tweets since earlier today.)

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Jean
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by Jean »

This is what comes when you initiate violence and insist on your right to use it. (just google BAMN).

BRUTE
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by BRUTE »

tragedy is tragic.
Spartan_Warrior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:53 pm
This is what comes of coddling the ridiculous narrative of white male persecution.
or maybe it comes from the attitude of "fuck white men".

IlliniDave
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by IlliniDave »

Trump: “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence ..."

Sad day in Virginia. Stooping to the tactics of terrorists with the vehicular assault is crossing a pretty significant line.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

It's not really crossing a line in the sense that it's something new. Hate crimes have been on the rise all year.

This sudden increase comes at the end of an already increasing trend. White supremacists and other right-wing groups have been responsible for more US civilian casualties than radical Islamic since 9/11.

"or maybe it comes from the attitude of "fuck white men"."

An attitude held by literally no one with any systemic power.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

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C40
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by C40 »

I don't really understand the motivation behind anti protest protests. If some people are complaining about something you feel is baseless, isn't the best thing usually to ignore them completely? One thing I learned as an INTJ in a leadership role at work is how demotivating it can be to just ignore someone's complaint or idea entirely and not even bother acknowledging it much less disagreeing or explaining why it's a bad idea.

Also, I don't know that this would count as white supremacy run amok. I'd imagine that a good deal of them welcome violence and the extra media attention it brings. (I don't necessarily mean the full-on 'white supremacists are acting like terrorists' part, I'm referring to the general "white supremacists and their opposition protestors get in violent clash" part.

James_0011
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by James_0011 »

Hi,

@spartan, may I ask what your gender and race is? Also, what part of the country do you live in? Thanks

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C40
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by C40 »

Nope, he's not a white 24 year old female from Portland.

James_0011
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by James_0011 »

I just was curious because of his seeming lack of
contact with anti white male types. As a white man whose lived in extremely liberal areas, I can confirm what brute says about this being a reaction to the "fuck white men" attitude.

I believe brute is in sf, which is comparable to the liberal areas I've been in.

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Jean
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by Jean »

Most white men have no systemic power, like most jews are not in porn or finance and most black aren't rapists.
If you get to be a victim of those things, don't blame the whole group it stemed from, blame yourself for not working on your vulnerabilities. And anyway, most of the group you'll blame will be a victim too. And it's very annoying to be blamed for something you have to face too.

BRUTE
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by BRUTE »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:04 pm
"or maybe it comes from the attitude of "fuck white men"."

An attitude held by literally no one with any systemic power.
it just got an innocent white man fired from Google for no reason.

the idea that SJWs are still the underdogs is hilarious to brute. they've been in (systemic) power for a decade now, and many abuse that power.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

"Nope, he's not a white 24 year old female from Portland."

Funny.

C40, at the moment it's difficult for me to compose a rational argument as to why it's necessary to confront white supremacy. Try this: A Nazi or KKK rally isn't really a protest. It's a statement of intent to commit violent acts and actively recruit others to do the same. (Like they've been doing in ever increasing numbers.) Opposing it is vital for the safety of many people in the community. Or, if you prefer to be flippant: "Oh, they want to organize to literally kill non-whites? Yeah, better just ignore those guys."


I don't dispute that there may be individuals who harbor prejudices against white males. I do dispute that the system, or any majority of individuals with political and economic power who comprise it, actively oppresses them based on their race or gender. Rather, I think of that as not only blatantly wrong by any historical and material analysis, but also literal Klan recruiting talk.

The Google alt-right superstar was fired for his actions, not his white maleness. Try again.

BRUTE
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by BRUTE »

Jean wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:38 pm
Most white men have no systemic power, like most jews are not in porn or finance and most black aren't rapists.
this might be the crux of it. very well put. even if the congress and the white house are filled with white men, 99.9% of white men have no systemic power. the whole identity/privilege rhetoric leads to blaming humans who have no power, and have often times not benefited from their "privilege". see meth users in the south, or the suicide/joblessness numbers of rural white men.

brute has heard this called the "apex fallacy", i.e. because a few powerful humans at the top are white men, all white men are powerful or share that power. this is as sexist/racist/collectivist as the typical stereotypes about jews, blacks, Mexicans, or whatever. just like those groups probably don't appreciate being stereotyped, white men probably don't like it. but fuck white men, right? it's ok to publicly shame and make fun of and stereotype them, because "white men are in power" and therefore are the perpetrators of the "systemic violence".

that 99.9% of the accused white men are NOT in very much power, is not important to the accuser. but it is to the 99.9%.

for the record, brute of course finds white supremacy stupid and dangerous. but anti-white supremacy or anti-male stereotyping and insults are also stupid and dangerous, if in different ways.

m741
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by m741 »

I don't know who or what Spartan is, but as a white man living in NYC I've never felt discriminated against. Any of the (white, male) friends I've talked to about it feel the same way. But then again I'm not that sensitive about these things.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

"99.9% of white men have no systemic power... and have often times not benefited from their "privilege". see meth users in the south, or the suicide/joblessness numbers of rural white men."

Is anti-white male bias the cause of their disadvantaged position?

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C40
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by C40 »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:51 pm

C40, at the moment it's difficult for me to compose a rational argument as to why it's necessary to confront white supremacy. Try this: A Nazi or KKK rally isn't really a protest. It's a statement of intent to commit violent acts and actively recruit others to do the same. (Like they've been doing in ever increasing numbers.) Opposing it is vital for the safety of many people in the community. Or, if you prefer to be flippant: "Oh, they want to organize to literally kill non-whites? Yeah, better just ignore those guys."
My comment was more about anti protest protests in general. (and you could replace the first "protest" with rally, demonstration, gathering, etc.)


I get your point about trying to oppose people talking up violent intent, but, even then, I'm not sure I see there being any effectiveness in going and protesting them - and especially in going and getting into violent conflicts with them (especially if that is what the supremacists want in the first place). It results, IMO, in more fuel for the supremacists recruiting efforts, more media exposure for their cause, and so on.

I suppose I'm talking about differing strategies of reducing a group that you don't like:
-- One being to highlight them and get more people to strongly and even violently oppose them and shame them into stopping (something that takes a lot of time and work)
-- And the other strategy being to ignore them completely, let them see they have no impact, credibility, or importance, and let them get bored or disheartened on their own and move on to other things. (this strategy takes zero time or work)

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C40
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by C40 »

Something that is both interesting and confusing to me. I see A TON of these kind of discussions online. About white male privilege, about white males being tired of the discussion of W.M.P. and the effects they get because of it.. About SJWS and taking down the patriarchy and all these kind of things. They are all over the internet.

I meet a fair amount of people. I meet people in a lot of different cities. It's very rare for me to meet a person who talks about and goes on about the above things in person like it happens on the internet. What's the deal?

bryan
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by bryan »

Well shit.. had a nice response about an hour ago but some key combination I hit ate it..

I was basically saying there are some parts of systems where, indeed, "fuck white men" has power. Maybe not in big hierarchies or mass perception (i.e. privilege e.g. how alleged criminals are treated), but definitely in major social systems or local systems.

I'm scared of people lumping other people together all the time. It's an old issue, but the more recent events (Trump, SJW, etc) mean I am more aware of it.

Also that all this reactionary stuff (both "sides"!) is super short-sighted and focusing on symptoms, not causes. Even entertainers (powerful!) have been like "hurr-durr, maybe let's try socialism?" as if that's some silver bullet that won't be corrupted or built on sand from the start.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

C40, you honestly think they're just going to go away on their own if everybody just looks away and pretends it's not happening? The number of hate groups are increasing. The number of hate crimes are increasing. Come on. You're a smart guy. Would you choose a "wait and ignore it" strategy on cancer?

Media is on the ground, broadcasting. If the other side doesn't show up, they aren't heard.

If the other side doesn't show up, those who would do violence against vulnerable communities become even further emboldened.

Many reasons to counter-protest them.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

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C40
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Re: White supremacy run amok

Post by C40 »

m741 wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:04 pm
I don't know who or what Spartan is, but as a white man living in NYC I've never felt discriminated against. Any of the (white, male) friends I've talked to about it feel the same way. But then again I'm not that sensitive about these things.
If you go spend time in other cities that (I believe, I actually know little about NYC) have serious racial tension, it stands out a lot. I'm talking cities like St Louis, Kansas City, Memphis, and I'm sure many others. When it comes to races and to interactions between black and white people, there is a totally different feeling in the cities I listed than in a place like, say, Denver. Totally different.

I don't know exactly what counts as discrimination. I haven't ever felt that I was discriminated against because I'm white or male. But when I lived in St Louis, I did receive a very huge amount of very regular small slights directed specifically at me, or, I guess what people might call micro-aggresions directed at me. (it's not surprising that his is happening and I don't blame them for feeling however they do or doing these things, given some really nasty discriminatory practices and segregation that happened in St Louis just within the last 50-100 years and how that has given so many black people there a horrible result in the birth lottery.. and I never took any serious offence to the slights... mainly they caused me thoughts along the line of "man... what the fuck is wrong with this place?")

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