White supremacy run amok

[bryan]

@C40, fair enough. Granted, it's just the beginning of said chain of events. Originally gave that example as it showed the wielding of power via a social system and it was related to Trump; the immediate effect might just be teenage cruelty..

I guess Damore is a better recent example of a martyr felled by social systems, even if he is a douche.

[Spartan_Warrior]

Also, @C40: "I think I mostly agree, but I think the effect of capital on the quality of my life goes back way further than the capital I have now."

This is really important. I just wanted to highlight it. It's exactly right.

You were right earlier in noting that it wasn't very long ago at all that black people couldn't sit at the front of the bus. Indeed, there are blacks alive who remember those days. Days when blacks weren't allowed to get mortgages or live in certain neighborhoods. Days when they couldn't go to the good schools.

Same thing for women. They were only given the vote in 1920. There are women alive--not many, but a few--who were born in a time when they couldn't vote.

That's oppression.

By comparison, white male oppression is teenagers on twitter.

But sure, let's run people over for it.

[C40]

@Chad - I guess my assumption, and I assume others' as well, is that of course hate groups are horrible and it's horrible that 1 or 3 people were killed and all that. It's obviously bad. We probably don't need to sit around taking turns saying we think it's horrible. I'd rather talk about things like why it ended up happening, or what should be done so it happens less.

I think I'd put a lot of those replies you quoted into the "why it happened" category. Them having opinions of why it happened doesn't mean they agree with any of it or think it's a valid thing to do. A lot of folks here here don't believe in 'Evil' as an actual thing, so they're going to have various other ideas.

[Dragline]

@ffj So you support the terrorists. Yes or no. If not, why are you hiding behind this crap of "we just don't know" when the guy who was there with the alt-right, was driving and owned the car, was caught red-handed on the scene, and has been charged with second degree murder? Do you think that was really a mistake? We do know. You know. I know. Everybody knows.

Stop hiding behind bullshit or show me better information than that which I have. If not, just admit you are wrong about this incident. Marco Rubio, Orrin Hatch, and Corey Gardner did not hesitate to call this by what it is: White Supremacists. Domestic Terrorism. It is obvious. Why can't you admit the obvious?

And they already have a national platform. His name is "Trump", and this is his legacy. This is what supporting Trump is all about: Anger leading to death and denial of responsibility. Yeah, keep trying to blame that woman for having the temerity to cross the street when she was run down by a white supremacist terrorist.

[Spartan_Warrior]

For the record:

White males are exploited by capitalism to the extent of their class position within it. Which is why it's entirely possible for poor rural whites to have as bad or worse socioeconomic positions as poor blacks or poor women.

White males are not oppressed. There are no systemic or historical factors involved in holding down their socioeconomic position based on race or sex.

Of course I'm talking in systemic terms, again, not that one person who was mean to you, not that one girl who rejected you on Twitter, and not that one boss who disagreed with your politics.

[Chad]

@C40
I'm not suggesting we should have been taking turns saying we think it was horrible at all. I'm suggesting these statements are very minor excuses for the protest to protect the team and not really the "why" behind it happening.

[Spartan_Warrior]

@Chad:

I literally almost wrote at the end of my OP:

"Cue 9 pages of subtly justifying white supremacy on the basis of perceived white male persecution."

I decided not to be inflammatory. I decided maybe there's still a chance to talk these things through. I hope so... But to be honest, in general at least, I don't think so. I really think we're too far gone for that.

[C40]

@ffj So you support the terrorists. Yes or no. If not, why are you hiding behind this crap of "we just don't know" when the guy who was there with the alt-right, was driving and owned the car, was caught red-handed on the scene, and has been charged with second degree murder? Do you think that was really a mistake? We do know. You know. I know. Everybody knows.

Stop hiding behind bullshit or show me better information than that which I have. If not, just admit you are wrong about this incident. Marco Rubio, Orrin Hatch, and Corey Gardner did not hesitate to call this by what it is: White Supremacists. Domestic Terrorism. It is obvious. Why can't you admit the obvious?

And they already have a national platform. His name is "Trump", and this is his legacy. This is what supporting Trump is all about: Anger leading to death and denial of responsibility. Yeah, keep trying to blame that woman for having the temerity to cross the street when she was run down by a white supremacist terrorist.

Dude.. take a deep breath. He said he was curious about what happened before the guy ran people over. That doesn't mean he supports terrorism.

[Chad]

I decided not to be inflammatory. I decided maybe there's still a chance to talk these things through. I hope so... But to be honest, in general at least, I don't think so. I really think we're too far gone for that.

Yeah, I was inflammatory right after the election. Then I calmed myself down and thought we would see some reason, as all the problems were obviously laid out with the current path of the "genius'" actions/non-actions. Now, I've decided that maybe the only way is to be inflammatory and escalate it? I'm not sure, as I go back and forth.

They literally marched down the street in body armor with assault rifles. What would have happened if one of the "Resist" rallies did that? Or, Black Lives Matter? The last one would have ended in a legit small scale war in an American city and they have a much more legit beef.

[BRUTE]

ah yes, certainly all of my successes in life stem primarily from ...... hmmm... what do you say?

clearly C40's rugged handsomeness

[Spartan_Warrior]

@Chad:
> legit small scale war in an American city

Nah, they'd just drop a bomb on a city block like they did on MOVE in 1985.

http://mashable.com/2016/01/10/1985-move-bombing/

Barely 30 years ago. How far we've come.


ETA: Compare the reaction here to, say, the Bundy's occupying a federal building.

[Dragline]

@C40

The car accelerated into a crowd, rammed them, and then tried to get away in reverse. Watch it reverse course after committing murder. Is this not an act of terrorism and is there any excuse in the world for it? Yes or no. Why does it matter if he felt like a white snowflake or what others were doing or saying before ramming his car in a terrorist act? Watch and tell me if the killing was justified.

"The car sped down the narrow street toward the protesters, slowed down as it approached the crowd of people, then accelerated again, according to witness Brennan Gillmore. "And then it reversed back into the street, dragging bodies and clothes," Gillmore told NBC News. "It was very clearly intentional."

We don't take about deep breaths to justify murder and an attempt to escape. Wake up, please. This is not time to be polite about people making shit up.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/natio ... 54263.html

[C40]

They literally marched down the street in body armor with assault rifles. What would have happened if one of the "Resist" rallies did that? Or, Black Lives Matter? The last one would have ended in a legit small scale war in an American city and they have a much more legit beef.

I don't know exactly, but it looks like it has more-or-less happened and no small wars broke out. I know for sure there were a LOT of people with guns at the initial BLM type protests in St Louis.

http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdn ... t-1295.jpg

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/0 ... 40x480.jpg

http://img.komicolle.org/2016-07/14685026809287.jpg

http://rapwise.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 24x665.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfD3aKyVAAA7cI6.jpg

[Chad]

@Chad:
> legit small scale war in an American city

Nah, they'd just drop a bomb on a city block like they did on MOVE in 1985.

http://mashable.com/2016/01/10/1985-move-bombing/

Barely 30 years ago. How far we've come.

Depressing. It's always comes back to that old Van Halen song Right Now...

"Right now, our government is doing things that we think only other countries do."

They weren't exactly moral leaders, but I remember that, along with other things, kind shocking me as a late teen. Seeing it from a hugely popular van was weird

[Spartan_Warrior]

Yeah, I too am curious how preceding circumstances could possibly justify or change the nature of the white supremacist's act of terrorism from exactly that. Did he "fear for his life"?

[C40]

@C40

The car accelerated into a crowd, rammed them, and then tried to get away in reverse. Watch it reverse course after committing murder. Is this not an act of terrorism and is there any excuse in the world for it? Yes or no. Why does it matter if he felt like a white snowflake or what others were doing or saying before ramming his car in a terrorist act? Watch and tell me if the killing was justified.

FFJ didn't say it isn't terrorism. He didn't say there's any excuse for it. He didn't say the guy felt like a white snowflake. He didn't say it mattes what others were doing before it happened. He didn't say the killing was justified.

What is going on around here lately with people putting words in others' mouths and then arguing against them?

[Spartan_Warrior]

"However, what is premature is calling this domestic terrorism or pre-meditated murder."

[C40]

FFJ didn't say it isn't terrorism. Why is it such a big deal that he declares it terrorism right at this moment?

[Spartan_Warrior]

@Chad:

For me that experience was System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine, lol.

And yeah, that's one they don't teach you about in schools. I believe the buildings that burned down in the bombing are still pretty much gutted. What was that about capital (or its bombed out absence) being passed on through communities...

I ETA'd so I'm not sure you saw, but compare that reaction to the reaction to the Bundys taking over a federal building.

@C40:

What on Earth else would you call it?

[Chad]

@C40
Yes, sprinkled throughout the crowd of people in their own neighborhood. Not a militia marching in to a town they don't live in. Every one of those pictures has roughly 1-3 armed and not necessarily in the same protest. The one photo may or may not even have weapons in it. Too blurry to tell if the uniformed men have weapons. Their might be handgun, but it's hard to tell.

Also, let's keep in mind why the different marches happened. The Black Lives Matter marches happened due to blatantly wrong killings of African Americans (yes, some of the killings were not blatantly wrong, but others were for sure.).

The Charlottesville march happened because they see themselves losing their advantages. The rest is just a smokescreen for these people. They aren't interested in being equal. This isn't the Tea Party. This is the KKK and similar organizations.