How Libertarian Are You?

Intended for constructive conversations. Exhibits of polarizing tribalism will be deleted.
SavingWithBabies
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by SavingWithBabies »

I got 63%. I harbor similar reservations to what @jacob outlined. I suspect my enthusiasm for libertarianism will continue to decline as I learn more about the world through observing reality. Lots of wonderful ideas in theory but reality is harsh and just how much money/power corrupts continues to amaze me.

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JWJones
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by JWJones »

"You are 95% Libertarian, which makes you a Hardcore Libertarian."

liberty
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by liberty »

Now I'm only 33% libertarian LOL. What a change!! People make too many stupid choices for libertarianism to work. I have become much more hedonistic recent years, and think it's OK with some gov regulations if that increases mankind's (and animals'!) overall happiness.

OTCW
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by OTCW »

I got 0%

bostonimproper
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by bostonimproper »

0%. But I feel like I answered the "libertarian" way for a number of these questions: businesses should be allowed to fail, sex work between consenting adults should be legalized, gay marriage shouldn't be treated differently, abolish the monarchy, drugs should be decriminalized, no state-based religious privilege, assisted suicide should be legal.

Either I don't understand libertarian dogma or the bar on this quiz is weirdly high.

Myakka
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Myakka »

0% Libertarian -- but looking at the series of questions which were asked in this survey that mostly mean that I don't agree with the current program of
1) the right to own as many guns as any noncriminal wants
2) the right to leave people to live on the street because they can not meet the conditions to be housed
3) the right of this government to torture some people
4) the right of corporations to allow their employees to starve for lack of money to buy food with (aka no minimum wage)
5) The use of the government to pick "winners" among the corporations (who they pay to do government services for them) rather than having a postal system and public education.
6) that the government should be about war and cops and courts and nothing else

I know that I have skewed the wording of what was asked such that these things appear in a more negative light than that which they were asked in the survey, but if you are going to have a prayer of convincing me that any idea is right it is paramount that you take it's most negative aspects and show why those are acceptable outcomes of your chosen policies.

Overall I do not believe in the idea of freedom without limits (which seems to me to be the core of the libertarian ideology), because freedom without limits in its extreme sanctions rape and slavery and abusiveness. If some of us have freedom without limits, then many of us will have no freedom at all.

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Alphaville
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Alphaville »

Libertarian Test

Result chart
You are 34% Libertarian, which makes you a Libertarian Fellow-Traveler.

Though you are probably *not* a libertarian in your basic political outlook, you are still able to find some common ground with the libertarian cause when it comes to social or economic freedoms (or possibly both). Your political roadmap for society most likely shares part of its route with the libertarians, but your ultimate political goal is probably different from the libertarian one.



sounds about right for tonight. some utopias are dystopias, so i refrain.

batbatmanne
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by batbatmanne »

Libertarian Test wrote:You are 50% Libertarian, which makes you a Soft-core Libertarian.

Your basic political view is probably more libertarian than anything else, but you nevertheless hold clear reservations about central parts of the libertarian agenda. You understand the libertarian rationales and see where they are coming from, but you still find some of their policy recommendations to be too harsh, too anarchistic, or too extreme for the overall good of society. It is people like you who add a human face (and a bleeding heart) to an ideology that is otherwise perceived as cynical.
Sounds about right to me.

Most of the conflict I have with libertarianism is that it only makes sense when it is set within a better theoretical (and I'd argue practical) framework of Georgism, which means essentially that there must be a state and that state must be empowered to regulate and to collect taxes on land that it is sovereign over. The libertarian in me says that the state must be limited beyond this and people must be given extensive personal and economic rights. These rights should include property rights to capital (not land) and labour income completely free from taxation and from regulation within reasonable limits. I'd like to think that libertarians would be amenable to such an arrangement once they move past their knee-jerk reaction to "land socialism." The theoretical support for the libertarian "homesteading" and "finders keepers" rights to own land as property is the achilles heal of the theory and, practically, leaves them completely unable to compromise on the issue of funding an impartial government, no matter how small and directed said government is. The anarchist variations completely fall apart on a theoretical level and could only end in a kind of tribal/warlord feudalism in my opinion.

The issue of sovereignty, that is, monarchy vs oligarchy vs democracy, is in itself orthogonal to the issue of effective governance. I rarely see these issues separated clearly in contemporary political thinking. Many people seem to think that democracy is an end in itself (read: "a people deserve the government that they elect"). It is much better to understand democracy (and monarchy and oligarchy) in terms of the incentive structures it creates for government policy and to judge it in terms of these outcomes. If a democratic government is given carte blanche it will lead to factionalization and coalitions will use government powers unevenly to the benefit of their own members. The upside is that there are usually some fundamental rights that everyone can agree on that may find their way onto a magical document of enumerated rights. The downside is that economic rights are unlikely to find their way onto any such list and the polity will degenerate into a sclerotic and potentially nasty kind of welfare statism. Contemporary libertarianism appears to fracture itself between those who revere political freedom (democracy) and those who see the threat that democracy poses to economic freedom. Some libertarians go so far as to explicitly prefer monarchy to democracy (Hans Hermann Hoppe). Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions to the problem of sovereignty: monarchy, oligarchy, and anarchy all have their obvious failure modes.

The Old Man
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by The Old Man »

84% Hardcore Libertarian

I am registered in the Libertarian Party, so it is fortunate my beliefs reflect my party membership.

I think it is 84% and not higher because I decided to support government provided healthcare. It is clear that the private market for healthcare is a complete and utter failure, so rather than trying to fixit it I think it would be more practical to abandon for-profit healthcare. I know this is probably the long road to communism, but what is the alternative? I am ultimately practical.

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Alphaville
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Alphaville »

@The Old Man - why can’t we have both though? A basic service from the government to maintain public health, premium for purchase for those who want extra.

liberty
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by liberty »

If the private market doesn't work (which I agree with, at least in US' case), why not make a government market with 3 - 4 different government healthcares?

batbatmanne
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by batbatmanne »

liberty wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:25 am
If the private market doesn't work (which I agree with, at least in US' case), why not make a government market with 3 - 4 different government healthcares?
IIRC this is similar approach to health care in Singapore, which is able to achieve first class outcomes at 5% GDP spending. They basically have the government competing with private businesses. The government provides catastrophic care insurance for all citizens which amounts to less than $100 per citizen per year. All private hospitals are required to have facilities to deliver the cheaper tier of care. Then they have citizens fund their own savings accounts which can be used towards necessities, including health care. Citizens are responsible for spending the first $2000 per year on their health and then anything after that is covered. This allows there to be a market in health care competing for that first $2000.

It is a very interesting system that I am surprised more countries haven't looked at more closely.

Married2aSwabian
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Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Married2aSwabian »

I guess the short answer is “Not very”:

You are 8% Libertarian, which makes you Not Libertarian.

In your case it is safe to say that you are *not* a libertarian. Whether because you prefer a greater degree of social discipline or economic regulation (or possibly both), you probably tend to find large swatches of the libertarian program to be far-fetched, extremist, and possibly even downright repulsive. If you are not the argumentative type, you had best stay clear of libertarians - they have a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.

My wife’s cousin is a long-time active Libertarian. The first time we were at his place, I noticed a frame with three photos hung by his door as we were leaving. Apparently, these were three people with whom he shares libertarian values: Bill O’Reilly, Henry David Thoreau and George Carlin! Seemed like an odd trio - the latter two are heroes of mine, the former, not so much! I’ll have to ask him to explain that in detail next time. ;)

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