How Libertarian Are You?

Intended for constructive conversations. Exhibits of polarizing tribalism will be deleted.
User avatar
fiby41
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am
Location: India
Contact:

How Libertarian Are You?

Post by fiby41 »


Enjoy! Let's find out.


Reply what you got.

BRUTE
Posts: 3798
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by BRUTE »

97% Libertarian

but brute thinks he's actually MORE libertarian than the quiz, and that the quiz got it wrong. the one question he didn't answer "fully agreed" was if the government should only hire private contractors to do anything, given there be a government. brute thinks only GOODS should be hired out to private contractors, but not BADS. a market will provide things more efficiently. some things should not be efficiently provided because they are bad. such as prison and war and intellectual property. therefore, the more libertarian solution is to choose an inefficient solution if one has to be found at all.

brute gives the quiz 97%.

GandK
Posts: 1995
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:00 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by GandK »

"You are 41% Libertarian, which makes you a
Soft-core Libertarian.

Your basic political view is probably more libertarian than anything else, but you nevertheless hold clear reservations about central parts of the libertarian agenda. You understand the libertarian rationales and see where they are coming from, but you still find some of their policy recommendations to be too harsh, too anarchistic, or too extreme for the overall good of society. It is people like you who add a human face (and a bleeding heart) to an ideology that is otherwise perceived as cynical."

ducknalddon
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by ducknalddon »

0% Libertarian :)

I must have been below some threshold as there were a number of questions I selected the libertarian option on.

"If you are not the argumentative type, you had best stay clear of libertarians - they have a reputation for being insufferable in an argument."

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

You are 52% Libertarian, which makes you a
Soft-core Libertarian.

Your basic political view is probably more libertarian than anything else, but you nevertheless hold clear reservations about central parts of the libertarian agenda. You understand the libertarian rationales and see where they are coming from, but you still find some of their policy recommendations to be too harsh, too anarchistic, or too extreme for the overall good of society. It is people like you who add a human face (and a bleeding heart) to an ideology that is otherwise perceived as cynical.
I agree with the "more libertarian than anything else" assessment. A lot of statements I either left in the middle or not all the way to one side because my opinion is dependent on what other laws are in place. Example; "should it be legal to drive without a seatbelt" depends on whether I'm going to have to pay for your medical bills when you spend the next several weeks in the hospital +/- occupational therapy for your spinal cord injury.

I think endangered animals deserve some degree of protection, within reason. (Who decides what's reasonable?) But I also think breeding them for capitalist purposes, if feasible, would be good for their numbers. Mmmmmm....elephant burgers.....

IlliniDave
Posts: 3121
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by IlliniDave »

I am a "Libertarian Fellow Traveler" (38%)

Though you are probably *not* a libertarian in your basic political outlook, you are still able to find some common ground with the libertarian cause when it comes to social or economic freedoms (or possibly both). Your political roadmap for society most likely shares part of its route with the libertarians, but your ultimate political goal is probably different from the libertarian one.

I think this is probably because I did not max out everything I agreed with--some stuff to me just isn't too big a deal, even a couple I didn't vote for-or-against.

Rather than "Fellow Traveler" I would self-identify as a "Practical" Libertarian as opposed to dogmatic/ideologically pure, but hey, "Fellow Traveler" is what the internet said. I've actually voted libertarian which is more than my IRL Libertarian friends can say.

batbatmanne
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:35 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by batbatmanne »

15%.

In my opinion, laissez-faire capitalist style libertarians seem to be hung up on private property as a kind of natural right. Of course, rights are social constructions and, in light of this, good arguments need to be given for why I, as a member of a society, should continue to support them. John Locke style private property rights make sense in a full world, but there are now too many humans with too high of a capacity to consume for everybody to enjoy the kind of material abundance that many see it their right to enjoy. Consequently, I don't see the protection of significant wealth in excess of need as just. Or course, many humans will get quite violent about such things, which I also have no interest in.

Riggerjack
Posts: 2993
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Riggerjack »

83% libertarian

No surprise, I'm getting soft as I age...

BRUTE
Posts: 3798
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by BRUTE »

@batbatmanne

that sounds almost like an anarcho-syndicalist view, if very subtle/non-aggressive. brute believes they support property rights merely as far as property is actually used by an individual (hiring maids and landscapers to "use" it doesn't count).

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

+1 to IlliniDave's pragmatism. I'm in favor of the system that works for the most people. Property rights are a useful concept. As are a *carefully chosen* set of rules to define them.

No one will farm a plot of land if they know armed bandits can steal their harvest. Maybe the bandits worked just as hard as the farmer? But if the local warlord/chieftan promises to protect your land and your stuff, and to punish thieves, you can get a productive economy out of the situation.

Anarchism and Socialism both seem like good ideas. Except that they don't work, so there's the problem.

batbatmanne
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:35 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by batbatmanne »

BRUTE wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:17 am
@batbatmanne

that sounds almost like an anarcho-syndicalist view, if very subtle/non-aggressive. brute believes they support property rights merely as far as property is actually used by an individual (hiring maids and landscapers to "use" it doesn't count).
Yes, I would consider an ideal society to most resemble that of the left anarchists. Given the challenges of justice in a world that is rapidly confronting the problem of ecological boundaries, I think that relegating the concept of private property to a smaller material scale and allowing the concept of stewardship more prominence at a larger scale is fitting. I am generally unconvinced that private property rights are worth enforcing beyond those that ensure that individuals have access to the necessities of life. I don't see any justification for profiting from natural wealth by excluding others from enjoying it and this problem is at the root of a number of different forms of market failure. This line of reasoning led me from "right libertarianism" to "left libertarianism" or anarchism a few years ago. The philosophy of Henry George acted as a bridge for me in the transition.

I am less fervent about justice than most anarchists tend to be but I think that they come the closest to getting the idea right. This is the kind of society that I would most like to live in and be a part of. Unfortunately, theories of an ideal society are so far removed from the realities of power that I have a difficult time recognizing what and how it prescribes for a non-ideal world. In the first place, humans tend to be imprudent and lack compassion to such an extent that I doubt whether such a society could be stable. The next best alternative would seem to be an enlightened despotism but perhaps that is about as likely to become a reality.

In any case, prudence generally prescribes political apathy and I am glad to be afforded the means to do so.

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

batbatmanne wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 pm
I think that relegating the concept of private property to a smaller material scale and allowing the concept of stewardship more prominence at a larger scale is fitting. I am generally unconvinced that private property rights are worth enforcing beyond those that ensure that individuals have access to the necessities of life. I don't see any justification for profiting from natural wealth by excluding others from enjoying it and this problem is at the root of a number of different forms of market failure.
Which forms of "market failure?"

So you want to limit the amount of private property an individual can own? To what scale? Like, what you can carry, or one acre and one mule? Are you for or against any form of welfare or entitlements?

If equal access to resources is the law, is an individual more or less likely to conserve what they don't use compared to an ownership society?
scriptbunny wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:45 pm
0% as to be expected.
I'm curious what attracted you to ERE? As I see ERE, it largely depends on ownership and self sufficiency.
(I'm making an assumption that anti-libertarian approximates pro-socialism/reduced self sufficiency.)

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Dragline »

4% Did I win? I picked mostly neutral.

Some of the questions did not make sense to me, like the one about raising the wild animals. Such animals are extremely difficult to breed in captivity, which is why they were never domesticated on a large scale in the first place. (I remembered this from "Guns, Germs and Steel").

George the original one
Posts: 5364
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by George the original one »

0%. Which matches with the 2D chart of political spectrum where I ended up somewhere by the Dalai Lama.

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

@scriptbunny Why should the government be better at meeting your needs than the free market?

User avatar
Stahlmann
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:05 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Stahlmann »

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:48 pm
@scriptbunny Why should the government be better at meeting your needs than the free market?
Because "free market" is as free as "its owners" decide it to be :lol:
Believing in always grining CEOs from ads and their "world of opportunity" is pretty naive.
It doesn't matter anyway, any job place can be outsourced to a group of interns.

PS. Yes, I am anarchosyndicalist inside man in community of small "fat cats" :lol:

Reading list:
https://www.amazon.com/Things-They-Dont ... 1608193381

IlliniDave
Posts: 3121
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by IlliniDave »

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:48 pm
@scriptbunny Why should the government be better at meeting your needs than the free market?
The government is really good at the business of killing people and breaking things (e.g., military, heavy-handed law enforcement, etc.) The further you stray from that, the worse they do, in general, although there are a few exceptions.

Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 1564
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I got 15%. It must have been my support for guns and drugs.

Some of the questions seemed a little off. Some of these surveys are far from scientific.

BRUTE
Posts: 3798
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by BRUTE »

batbatmanne wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 pm
Given the challenges of justice in a world that is rapidly confronting the problem of ecological boundaries, I think that relegating the concept of private property to a smaller material scale and allowing the concept of stewardship more prominence at a larger scale is fitting. I am generally unconvinced that private property rights are worth enforcing beyond those that ensure that individuals have access to the necessities of life.
interesting. brute has a similar view. he views private property not as a Holy Natural Right (tm) like many Libertarians do, but as a useful convention, like agreeing which side of the road to drive on. they are useful to a degree, but only because they facilitate an economy.

brute isn't really driven by anything like "justifying" or "deserving" too much property, as these are vacuous ideas - what's the justification for any other type of distribution? as a nihilist, brute doesn't believe in justice or deserving things. might makes right - but certain distributions of might lead to generally more enjoyment for most humans than others, so brute prefers them.
batbatmanne wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 pm
I am less fervent about justice than most anarchists tend to be but I think that they come the closest to getting the idea right. This is the kind of society that I would most like to live in and be a part of.
that's also an interesting thought. if most humans were ERE, that would mean they voluntarily gave up consumerism and many belongings now considered "normal". at the same time, there would be so much investment capital that it would probably be hard to get any interest from any humans.

in effect, if the savings rate of the entire economy was close to the 75-90% that ERE prescribes, material scarcity in that economy would be over. thus, there would scarcely be a need for property rights. if almost all material needs were met almost for free, who cares about property rights? they would lose their value to structure the economy and society.

property rights in investments are highly valued by EREers, but maybe only because losing them would mean losing the ability to pay for the (tiny) amount needed for a work-free life. if the productivity/savings ratios of the economy were at that level, maybe even property rights in Vanguard accounts would cease to matter, as long as the ratios didn't get brought back down? if the accounts were still sitting there, paying for almost all human life, how much would it matter which humans had their names on them?
batbatmanne wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 pm
Unfortunately, theories of an ideal society are so far removed from the realities of power that I have a difficult time recognizing what and how it prescribes for a non-ideal world. In the first place, humans tend to be imprudent and lack compassion to such an extent that I doubt whether such a society could be stable. The next best alternative would seem to be an enlightened despotism but perhaps that is about as likely to become a reality.

In any case, prudence generally prescribes political apathy and I am glad to be afforded the means to do so.
this is also where brute has ended up. he derives some enjoyment and entertainment out of certain political and libertarian discussions, but has completely given up hope that anything will improve in his lifetime. in a way, this is very liberating. it allows brute to laugh about Trump instead of being angry.

a Trump presidency and a Clinton presidency are both so far removed from brute's ideal that they are virtually indistinguishable.

User avatar
Jean
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Switzterland

Re: How Libertarian Are You?

Post by Jean »

I'm a consensual anarchist.
We should all agree on what we won't do.

Post Reply