Men's rights movement - opinions

Intended for constructive conversations. Exhibits of polarizing tribalism will be deleted.
7Wannabe5
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

C40 said: In the current context, I'd consider "trophy" to mean:
A woman who is (compared to the man) better looking, AND who considers herself a prize to be won.
Maybe, but females doing some level of filtering towards sexual selection is a pretty primitive process. For instance, I am a pretty die-hard minimalist, but my suitors always bring me presents. I have been told by more than one man that I am much less demanding than most women, so it's like they are behaving in alignment with their perception of overall market dynamics or prior experiences with other women, rather than what I am actually communicating. Like if you put some garden produce out on a table with a "pay what you think is fair" sign on a jar.

My BF gave me a designer handbag for Xmas, and said "I know you are either going to love it or hate it. " I gave him a used book and a used chainsaw. I have mixed feelings about the bag, because it is very well-made and sturdy, but I fear that it might increase my odds of being mugged in my neighborhood. My sister recently noted that a large proportion of my small collection of durable goods such as my bicycle, my cart, my winter boots, my good wool coat and my simple gold hoop earrings were given to me by some swain, current or former. On one occasion, after I refused to allow him to transfer funds to me by backing my bets on horse-races while in his company, a very affluent former lover insisted on covering my dental co-pay. Somebody, likely one of my recent poly-amours, just sent me a t-shirt that says " I ransack public libraries, and find them full of sunk treasure. - Virginia Woolf" with an unsigned note enclosed "to a lovely, wonderful person" which, I must admit, was an effective move towards recovering himself in my good graces.

Anyways, the point I am attempting to make with this rather rambling personal anecdote is that I am in agreement with the OP at the level of noting that the dating/mating/marriage market is going through a period of transition that is often confusing or frustrating for many of its participants. My current position in the market is such that my rational response should be to become more demanding, but I don't even know what to demand. Marriage? More presents? 6-Pack abs? Sexual performance? That men bow down and kiss my hand before they open the car door for me? Since my appearance is pretty much in alignment with what you would get if you found a grubby Cabbage Patch doll in a thrift store and drew some wrinkles on its forehead and stuffed a sock in its shirt, I share the OP's perception that for some combination of reasons, either economic, cultural or demographic, the market is currently favoring females.

Riggerjack
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Riggerjack »

I believe in evolution, not just in species, but in personalities. Early in life, most of us haven't varied much from our high school niche.

When I refer to a trophy, I mean the cheerleader/mall rat, who has now discovered that cheerleading really isn't such a great career path. Quite specifically I am not talking about the hot celloist in AP biology, now picking which law school to attend.

Leverage what you have to get what you want, if only to find out that what you have been told you want, isn't what you really want.

If physical beauty is his hang up, he should go for some of that, if only because he should get a good grip on how little that is worth in a relationship. And, since in his own words, he is not a man that women flock to (yet); he shouldn't be shooting for the whole package, yet.

If he did stumble onto hot, sweet, funny and smart, how would he attract her? How would he keep her? How would he not spend every day jealous of every man who smiled at her? How would he not make his life and hers miserable, and not spend the rest of his pining for her?

Happy relationships are made between people who appreciate each other, and feel lucky to have found such a partner. Part of being that partner is going out, facing rejection, learning to reject others, finding out what you like, and what you don't, finding out how to fuck up a relationship, and how not to. None of those happens in mom's basement, and all of them involve making mistakes.

He's looking for a date, not forever. Hell, he's still caught up in Fair, like there is a singles version of the Recess Lady to appeal to.

My advice is simple:

Everything about life is unfair, if you allow it.

Go get some experience. Develop yourself. Fixing weaknesses builds more confidence than building on your strengths. As a man, confidence will change your relationships with both men and women.

There is no need to push out you chest and try to be alpha. That is just a whole other can of BS, mainly geared to appealing to older displaced cheerleaders, and weak boys.

You need to find you. Part of that is going out to try a little of everything, to see what is not you. That sounds like self help book BS, but seriously, how else would you go about it?

Stahlmann
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Stahlmann »

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Last edited by Stahlmann on Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Scott 2
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Scott 2 »

My point is not the person who has been rated a 10 is intolerable.

My point is the act of rating someone a 10, placing them on a pedestal, then performing to win them, creates a dysfunctional relationship. Yeah, the 10 has to participate, but it's pretty impossible to normalize the scenario created by the suitor. The kind response is to reject the attention, but the temptation to use the other person often wins. Early on, the 10 might not even understand what is happening.

Someone caught up in the pattern, on either side, is going to have a tough experience in relationships.

Stahlmann
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Stahlmann »

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Last edited by Stahlmann on Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Scott 2
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Scott 2 »

I think the investment from the woman's side is missed. They are likely spending more on that first date, it's just not as direct. They pay a premium for clothes, hair, beauty products, even physical safety. They also have a more limited duration of high market value, making the opportunity cost of each date higher.

IMO the divorce "bias" is a natural extension of how society values a young woman compared to a middle aged woman with kids. The woman has provided her highest value years and has a reasonable expectation of return.

I personally have not observed the work place discrimination against men. Maybe it's because I am in male dominated fields, but it's quite the opposite. My observation has been equality often means women are hired into supporting roles. The rare male that goes into the same fields, is quickly elevated to leadership positions. This is slowly improving on both counts, because addressing it provides a business advantage. That improvement does mean men might be held to a higher standard than previously, but I do not see it as discrimination.

An assertive man is confident, an assertive woman is difficult to work with. This subjects the women to higher objective standards, since they cannot just get loud to have their way. When I run meetings, I make a point to ensure less assertive participants can provide their highly valuable input. I'll openly compliment contributions and demonstrate they are equal to loud or bossy peers. Over time this creates confidence in the less assertive team members, builds loyalty, and leads to a more productive group. Both genders share in the benefit of the culture shift. It does take something from the loud guy with dumb or average ideas, but he's been getting a disproportionate share relative to his contributions anyway.

SilverElephant
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by SilverElephant »

Alright Stahlmann, you're right: back on topic.

I do believe "the system" and "people" to be pro-women and biased against men. However, most men I've known to have real trouble with this - in the sense that they ended up having actual emotional distress, legal issues or similar - have been men who have issues with women in general. They pick unsuitable wives, they put themselves in dangerous situations with women at work, they grovel in front of emotionally unstable women who aren't in sync with their sexuality and will use them and then claim rape. I am exaggerating to make a point. I am also aware there are highly abusive and damaged men, but the topic here was bias against men.

The guys who are in control and at ease with women mostly don't have these issues because they end up, consciously and unconsciously, with decent women. There are divorces where both parties come to an agreement without breaking any dishes and without one party being raked over the coals.

In my eyes it's a little like financial savvy/ERE/FI. There's a clear bias against employees/consumers because this is where the money is at, them making up the largest segment of the population. So the system is set up to screw them and siphon off their money, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to break free by simply not participating in stupid shit and making smart choices. That doesn't mean you'll be safe from everything all the time.

Another source of trouble here is, I believe, is the fact that humans suck at grey. They want black and white, in the sense that the general sentiment will either be that men are dangerous predators and women are fragile creatures to be protected, leading to crazy stuff like guidelines for men not to be alone in a room with a woman (as circulated at my university and some big employers) because of the possibility for her to claim sexual harassment, or the sentiment that women are generally inferior creatures that should not be allowed their own bank accounts. We started at the latter and went right on to the former.

In addition, I'm fairly certain that the current men vs. women "war" is a clear-cut case of divide et impera. Nothing like egging your citizens on to feel disenfranchised and wage ideological war on each other to keep them from considering more important issues, i.e. how come most rich people don't pay income tax but I do? It's certainly what I'd do.

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C40
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by C40 »

Stahlmann wrote:I use short sentences just to convey messages.
I am totally dissatisfied with direction the topic went.
To this moment nobody has responded to fundamental problems stated in the topic.
Yeah, you didn’t get a ‘He-Man woman haters’ team going like you hoped?
Stahlmann wrote:What kind of credentials do you expect me to have to end this debate over my sexual fulfillment?
I gave some info about me because I know that sooner or later there will be ,,you are ugly"-argument.
Unfortunately whole discussion focused on ,,just be better and have sex, mate".
Very sad and disgusting.
Stahlmann wrote:For me it's ultimate proof of gynocentrism. Whatever I do, the problem is that I am not getting laid. Are you serious, my fellow ERE friends?
You are talking about how hard YOU have it for dating, how you are not getting laid, and how unfair it is using extremely one-sided arguments. People are responding to you personally because you keep talking about how hard you personally have it. If you want a discussion about the overall landscape, then talk about the overall landscape (and do it realistically, not just with the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I’ll quote below)



Stahlmann wrote:Heh, some kind of venting, but it happens when women don't flock to you :mrgreen:
I don't want to change world, but at least prostitution should be legalised (in that way I can not be beaten by pimp etc.).
You sound entitled. Women don’t just come flocking to you, so there must be some conspiracy?

And again, as I’ve asked you before: What do you want? If you want a he-man woman hater thread, that is totally possible here. You’re just doing a really bad job of guiding the thread there. You’re presenting your arguments in one-sided and absurd ways.


Stahlmann wrote:Can I find nice girl? No, Tinder has inflated her ego, that I need to be like sport model.
Is “nice” really what you’re looking for? Come on, really?

Stahlmann wrote:times are rougher than ever for men.
Totally absurd. There were periods of time in regions where men outnumbered women like 100 to 1. Yes really. Imagine trying to get a woman then. Imagine trying to get a woman in Polygamous societies where a rich man gets ten wives and the other 9 men get manual labor jobs and masturbation.

Stahlmann wrote:The man is the person who kneels down in front of the woman. This is real oppression.
Ridiculous
Stahlmann wrote:Do you really want to be treated as meat dildo for them? I don't want to.
What are you even talking about? What is a meat dildo? I think I may want to be treated like that.

Stahlmann wrote:Maybe I lack perspective as men. For me it's women who have been receiving free pass in life and been validated since junior high-school. It shows how gynocentric our society is
You do.

Stahlmann wrote:Finally, it's woman who receives free lunch...And man is rated as not attractice enough. Nice.
Do you understand how much women feel they have to spend on their appearance just to look normal? (It’s often way more than men have to spend on dating.)

Stahlmann wrote:The problem is women set so high standards that there is no entry for many men. There are no ,,virgin neckbeard women who live in parents' basement”.
Every single part of “virgin neckbeard women who live in parents' basement” can be fixed. For women, there is much. There is ugly, resting bitch face, cottage cheese legs (cellulite), flat chested, pear shaped, apple shaped, banana shaped (every shape except “hourglass” is the wrong one). A virgin neckbeard can shave and find one vulnerable slutty girl and he’s 2/3 of the way there. That can be done in two days. Banana to hourglass takes over a year and in many cases is completely impossible.

Stahlmann wrote:Well, I don't care. I want to present in this topic that men are discriminated nowadays more than women before 70’s
….


Stahlmann wrote:Hey, hey! How about whole dating is pedestalization of women (needs')?
Who is responsible for: asking out, planning and paying?
I am not bitter. I just want point there are many guys who can not join the fun bus.
Asking women out can be easy. Dating can be completely free. There are threads about that on this forum. But you’re not interested in learning that are you?

(though with the current hold that consumer culture has on dating it does take quite a bit of effort or even a sort of negotiation or tightrope walking. It totally depends on the girl though. You date a consumerist girl, she expect spendy dates. You date a girl that’s not a consumerist, she’ll be happy to meet you at the park or the library.)


My Point here:
My point is - the reason people aren't agreeing with you like you'd hope is that you're arguing in an ineffective manner. Get a better understanding of the womens' side of things. Show that you have a balanced, accurate view. Don't just present lopsided complaining.



Onward
Here’s some other OK Cupid data that:
1 - Confirms that a guy your age has the cards stacked against him
2 - Should make you feel better about men your age over the next 20 years: https://stagetwo.wordpress.com/2010/04/ ... on-of-age/

Image

Yeah, women at their peak are considered more attractive than men at their peak. (Other charts I found of the same thing showed less discrepancy in the peak heights). A woman’s peak attractiveness lasts about 5 years. A man’s lasts about 20. That is a huge advantage for men. Guess what, this means that when you’re 47, you can still date a 27 year old woman. That is pretty fucking awesome for men. If you fit the norm on this chart, you’re at only about 20% of peak attractiveness. This is because most guys your age don’t know what the hell they are doing in dating/sex/relationships or have some huge singular weakness (fear of rejection is a common one). I certainly didn't know what I was doing at that age, and it appears you’re similarly confused.





Some more charts for you. Look how absurd men are:

Image
OK, well, I mean the men aren’t entirely wrong. This is aligned with the previous chart above, and younger women do generally look better (though I’d say women look best closer to 25)


Compared to women:
Image
What do these mean for you? It means that every single man, no matter their age, wants to fuck and date that same 20 year old that you do. That’s tough. Who’s fault is it? The 20 year old girl? No, its all those men.

What else does it mean for you? It means that as you get older, your stock gets higher and higher with women. And it NEVER goes down lower than a woman's. Even when you get over 50 and you’re past your peak, you're still more attractive than women your age, now the men are dying off quicker than women, so there are more women for every man left.


Consumerism
I'd say that for guys like us, who are ERE-types, the biggest challenge in dating and relationships is the impact that consumerism has had on them. Some really stupid expectations are now set in place in dating, ones that came from consumerism. Expensive dates, flowers, diamond rings, "romantic getaways" (don't even get me started on how stupid it is to think that it's romantic for people (who don't have kids at home) to go stay in some hotel room)). Now both men and women think these are an important part of relationships. For the men uninterested in spending on these things, a significant portion of women are eliminated as potential mates.

Viewed on it's own, a man's refusal to consumerize dating is absolutely valid and realistic. I mean, flowers and diamond rings mean fuck-all (nothing) about love. The problem is that in the cultural landscape of dating, women spend a bunch of money and time on making themselves look more attractive, and men spend a bunch of money (and time earning it) on dates, rings, etc. That's the current deal. When the man points out how stupid it is to do his side of this, it's not fair within the dating landscape when women are still spending all the time and effort on their appearance.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Riggerjack said: I believe in evolution, not just in species, but in personalities. Early in life, most of us haven't varied much from our high school niche.
True, but it's also interesting to note how some aspects of identity or temperament do remain fairly consistent. I was the sexy nerd when I was 17, and I will probably still be the sexy nerd when I am 85. Will there still be some 92 year old "smart-for-a-hoodlum" type playing Steppenwolf on his stereo system and inviting me in to smoke a joint of medical marijuana with him or hoisting me up for a wheelchair dry-hump in the Senior Assisted Living Plaza? I can't say for sure, but my mid-life experience in the dating arena would veer my prediction towards the affirmative.

@C40: I didn't even realize how uggo I was at the age of 51 (almost 52!) until I looked at your first chart, and I didn't realize that there were no human males over the age of 50 until I looked at your second chart. I don't want to go off on a tangent, so I may need to start a new thread entitled Late Dating Extreme!!! which you may have reason to consult if you find yourself still single or single again when you are over the age of 46 ;)

steveo73
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by steveo73 »

Stahlmann wrote:Why do think if it is necessary to discuss: male suicides, discrimination in workplace, bias in divorce, problem with homelessness, mental aggression from women?

For me it's ultimate proof of gynocentrism. Whatever I do, the problem is that I am not getting laid. Are you serious, my fellow ERE friends?
My opinion is that it isn't about you not being laid. It could be about so many things - for instance getting a good job, being happy etc. All of these things though are within your control to achieve.

Your attitude that you are hard done by is an attitude of entitlement. We all have to look at ourselves and work through who we are and then take actions to improve our lives. To me ERE is a microcosm of that.

Also I think society is basically amazing. You can have such a good life with so little. So modern day society might have these trivial little problems but overall you are so lucky and you can achieve whatever you want in your life.

steveo73
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by steveo73 »

Scott 2 wrote:My point is not the person who has been rated a 10 is intolerable.

My point is the act of rating someone a 10, placing them on a pedestal, then performing to win them, creates a dysfunctional relationship. Yeah, the 10 has to participate, but it's pretty impossible to normalize the scenario created by the suitor. The kind response is to reject the attention, but the temptation to use the other person often wins. Early on, the 10 might not even understand what is happening.

Someone caught up in the pattern, on either side, is going to have a tough experience in relationships.
So rating women like this is completely stupid. Women would do this as well but again it's crazy. Personally I think on the whole women do this better than men.

steveo73
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by steveo73 »

Stahlmann wrote:
Scott 2 wrote:My point is not the person who has been rated a 10 is intolerable.

My point is the act of rating someone a 10, placing them on a pedestal, then performing to win them, creates a dysfunctional relationship. Yeah, the 10 has to participate, but it's pretty impossible to normalize the scenario created by the suitor. The kind response is to reject the attention, but the temptation to use the other person often wins. Early on, the 10 might not even understand what is happening.

Someone caught up in the pattern, on either side, is going to have a tough experience in relationships.
Hey, hey! How about whole dating is pedestalization of women (needs')?
Who is responsible for: asking out, planning and paying?
I am not bitter. I just want point there are many guys who can not join the fun bus.
http://i.imgur.com/2MstAzl.gif
And am I mad? A bit, I would say. Why should I need to organize my whole life to receive some (external) validation from women?
I am not in denial. I see, sex is fun (and I see consequences which women bear - but hey,hey! Who has received the pill in 70"s?). But I am being outcompeted and I am willing to pay for it (but in this case I have some demands and I stand up for them - other issue I have mentioned in different post).
You are so caught up in this false reality. You also bring it back to dating and sex when earlier you tried to make it about something else.

To answer your question - yes you are mad. You don't have to have these false beliefs. If you don't want to pay then don't. If you don't want to plan something than don't. Plenty of women will be fine with that.

steveo73
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by steveo73 »

C40 wrote:Consumerism
I'd say that for guys like us, who are ERE-types, the biggest challenge in dating and relationships is the impact that consumerism has had on them. Some really stupid expectations are now set in place in dating, ones that came from consumerism. Expensive dates, flowers, diamond rings, "romantic getaways" (don't even get me started on how stupid it is to think that it's romantic for people (who don't have kids at home) to go stay in some hotel room)). Now both men and women think these are an important part of relationships. For the men uninterested in spending on these things, a significant portion of women are eliminated as potential mates.

Viewed on it's own, a man's refusal to consumerize dating is absolutely valid and realistic. I mean, flowers and diamond rings mean fuck-all (nothing) about love. The problem is that in the cultural landscape of dating, women spend a bunch of money and time on making themselves look more attractive, and men spend a bunch of money (and time earning it) on dates, rings, etc. That's the current deal. When the man points out how stupid it is to do his side of this, it's not fair within the dating landscape when women are still spending all the time and effort on their appearance.
There is though a massive middle approach here. You don't have to buy into consumerism and lots of women don't buy into consumerism. You can buy into this a little. You can fit in and get laid or have relationships.

A good woman if she loves you will be completely accepting of a life that is a little less normal that what occurs within the consumerist society that we live in.

Riggerjack
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Riggerjack »

Why do think if it is necessary to discuss: male suicides, discrimination in workplace, bias in divorce, problem with homelessness, mental aggression from women?
OK.
male suicides
I don't care. Sorry, it's callous, but there you have it. Someone opted out, I hope they thought it thru, and minimized their pain. Next subject.
discrimination in workplace,
yup. Discussed it. It happens, get over it. It's much too easy to succeed to get too worked up over. Spoiler alert: the boss' relatives have it easier, too.
bias in divorce
this seems to be getting better, but honestly, everyone gets screwed in divorce. I recommend avoiding it.
problem with homelessness
OK, now you are really reaching. I'm sure someone, somewhere can blame an empowered woman for taking his job, apartment, dog, options, will, self respect, etc. Hell I even know her name. But I think your main culprits are going to be drugs and alcohol.
mental aggression from women?
Damn, I must just too great a guy, because I don't know what you are talking about. :D

Anything else you want me to talk about?

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C40
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by C40 »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
@C40: I didn't even realize how uggo I was at the age of 51 (almost 52!) until I looked at your first chart,..... I may need to start a new thread entitled Late Dating Extreme!!! which you may have reason to consult if you find yourself still single or single again when you are over the age of 46 ;)
Well hey, the chart says that on average, a woman your age is as attractive as a 21 year old man, which is a pretty darn good I think. And if you use 'Sexy nerd' to describe yourself, you're probably well above that.

And yeah, I'd say there's an 85% chance I'll be unmarried at age 46*, so make that thread :-D (*Partly because even if I then have what I consider a partner for life, I'd probably still prefer not to marry)

slowtraveler
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by slowtraveler »

Fascinating thread.

I edited my post to make it more relevant to OP.

@OP, I agree that women currently have a dating bias and are often put on a pedestal by society. Women often get less jail for same crime. Skin colors often have a similar effect but hey, our current president is evidence that biases are not insurmountable.

We're all human. An attractive human will attract people regardless of these biases and I think that's the whole point of the Demise of Guys book you pointed out. That we have the power to change this. I want to be someone I respect and trust- that's my primary focus now. Quitting some of the bad habits ironically mentioned in those books you pointed out.

I love that the issue is being brought up because this awareness will likely lead to men reclaiming their masculinity, having more and better role models, joining support groups, and becoming higher quality for the journey.

In the end, men and women are both humans, on the same team to create more amazing humans. When society loses sight of that, both men and women lose.

@ C40-Thanks for the charts. They explain lot of my lack of success meeting older women on OKC. I had to go out and meet them in classes/events instead. I have to say though, women in their 30's (in general) are a lot more into health, nature, spirituality, frugality, HONESTY, low-drama, and passionate, uninhibited celebration of the best kinds of fun than women in their early 20's so I think that chart may be biased towards looks (as mentioned in the axis.)
Last edited by slowtraveler on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

slowtraveler
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by slowtraveler »

I just watched 2 videos on the topic by an author of one of the books initially mentioned, Philip Zimbardo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMJgZ4s2E3w Demise of Guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAu1i6aChs Why Boys are Failing
I agree about addiction to arousal (novelty) creating many problems, particularly for boys. This is a very fixable challenge. He talks about contributing, becoming future-oriented rather than present-hedonistic, losing fat, exercising, writing, reading, communicating, meditating, connecting to male role models, mentoring others, letting go of arousal addictions are some personal solutions.

The 2nd video gives some cultural solutions as well on how to empower men. Which I see as a noble and worthwhile cause that will take place in our lifetime. Both genders can have their power and create more together without dishonoring the gifts of the other.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Stahlmann: I'm old enough to just barely be your biological grandmother, so I am tending towards feeling some sympathy for your plight or cause. However, I must inform you that based on my experiences as a female who self-describes as sexually-submissive and has been in relationships with men from generations/cultures/lifestyle-cults in which male dominance was assumed/legally-enforced/accepted, your rough attribution of cause, or likely cure, is just plain wrong. Here is an excellent documentary that I hope might serve to demonstrate why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs9XSTt-DIE

Stahlmann
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by Stahlmann »

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C40
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Re: Men's rights movement - opinions

Post by C40 »

When I lived in St Louis, I used to have a female friend let me watch her go through mens' profiles on Tinder. After like 10 minutes of seeing the pictures guys used, and seeing how she made swiping choices**, I wanted to start a hobby business of taking good pictures of guys that they could use on their dating profiles.

If you want, PM me to get my email address, and send me the pictures you used on Tinder. Also send me what had written as your profile text. I'll tell you if you should use different or better pictures, or change the text. To have no real chance on Tinder because of your looks, I think you have to be in the lowest 20th percentile. Yeah, the looks matter, but - especially as a man - a huge part of the impression you make on Tinder is the quality of your pictures and how well-written your profile is.

As far as the more interesting sexual life, that's something I've worked on a lot, and it comes with challenges. I've been good at starting them, but the main challenge I've had is in finding partners that actually end up available for a long term relationship that is primarily sexual.




**generally, men often make the decision based on the first picture and may not even look at the other pictures or profile text until after matching... whereas women look at nearly all pictures and text first. The men are just looking for a reason to say yes, and the women are looking for a reason to say no. Sometimes while watching my friend swipe, I'd see a guy that looks cool and that I wanted to be friends with, and she'd get to the last picture of him and he looks a bit disheveled or sweaty when he shouldn't obviously be, and she's go "aww HELLLL NO, JESUS!!!"

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