Clinton Coverup Queen

Intended for constructive conversations. Exhibits of polarizing tribalism will be deleted.
BRUTE
Posts: 3803
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

it's not like humans were smarter or better informed in the Bush/Gore days. the crap they believed just came more from talk radio and TV vs. the internet. the internet doesn't make humans more dumb, the dumbness is just more diversified.

Dragline
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Dragline »

BRUTE wrote:it's not like humans were smarter or better informed in the Bush/Gore days. the crap they believed just came more from talk radio and TV vs. the internet. the internet doesn't make humans more dumb, the dumbness is just more diversified.
It makes controversial or minority-held ideas more easily disseminated, as what happened after the invention of the printing press. Within a few generations, people were at each other's throats. Happens quicker today. This is why Montaigne's essays seem so familiar today, as he lived in a similar (but much worse/violent) era. He retired early, too.

ffj
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:16 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by ffj »

@K
Jokes aside, I believe the map I provided will be fairly close. I think we're headed for another hanging chad election.

Here's something interesting: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016 ... /88640044/
Now I don't know how representative these numbers are and we should be suspect, but I also feel we should be suspect when NBC or someone similar provides their polling data. Reuters recently received a lot of backlash for tinkering with results.

This is what caught my attention however about the Zip app:

“We’re not a poll. We’re a conversation, and 100% anonymous,” Militi says. “People feel comfortable answering questions without fear of being bullied or being called a racist. People can express themselves safely, and you get a pure answer.”

I think this is really relevant after Clinton is now more blatantly trying to link Trump support with the KKK and white supremacists. I think there is a general fatigue with this nonsense.

I thought this guy had some good thoughts on the most recent kerfuffle regarding Trump's plea for black voters and Clinton's response. I don't agree with everything he says in this video but overall the message is one that a lot of people are expressing (at least internally) and the fact that he belongs to the group being discussed is even more refreshing. I do think how one responds to this video is indicative how one will vote in the election but entertaining ideas like this young man's is what opening a dialog about race relations really means, warts and all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7tSKoFRvgw

BRUTE
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

that's definitely an issue. just like with Brexit, if one sides shames the other side into not going to polls, and they still vote.. well, then the polls are wrong.

ffj
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:16 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by ffj »

Speaking of Brexit, here's a speech given recently discussing those very same ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj4K9fr_WgY

That's how you give a speech.


I was watching a random commentator who brought up a couple of good points. First, he mentioned how Trump has already peaked on his outrageousness and all he has to do is appear normal here on out, and more importantly, all of the Bernie supporters who will be voting for Hillary will be doing so begrudgingly, meaning they will not be campaigning whatsoever for her as they would have for Bernie. Or they won't be voting at all or for an alternate candidate. I think those two factors are going to make a difference.

BRUTE
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Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

can't barrage the farage

Dragline
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Dragline »

ffj wrote:@K
This is what caught my attention however about the Zip app:

“We’re not a poll. We’re a conversation, and 100% anonymous,” Militi says. “People feel comfortable answering questions without fear of being bullied or being called a racist. People can express themselves safely, and you get a pure answer.”
Why do you think that a bunch of people who self-select an app (and tell their friends about it) are indicative of the general population who did not self-select the app? Show me a self-selected group and I'll show you some meaningless numbers as applied to the rest of the population.

This is Dunning-Kruger effect polling and is quite statistically innumerate. But I suppose its good marketing for the app and gives USA Today a story that makes the horserace sound more interesting.

ffj
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:16 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by ffj »

@Dragline

"Now I don't know how representative these numbers are and we should be suspect, but I also feel we should be suspect when NBC or someone similar provides their polling data. Reuters recently received a lot of backlash for tinkering with results."

Above was my disclaimer about its accuracy. I do agree however with the premise that people are much more honest when they are anonymous and don't have to suffer criticism for their viewpoints and that is going to be a factor this November.

Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Riggerjack »

Let’s imagine, dear reader, that you were to go into a Starbuck’s in a hip neighborhood in Portland, Oregon, and ask the people there—dyed-in-the-wool Democrats to a man, woman, gender-nonspecific individual, and child—to describe their nightmare presidential candidate, the person they’d least like to see in the White House next January.

They’d tell you that it would be a political insider openly in bed with banks and big business who spent years in public service pandering to the rich, who is also a neoconservative who pursued regime-change operations against Third World countries and was committed to military confrontation with the Russians. The candidate would have a track record supporting the kind of trade agreements that allow corporations to overturn environmental laws, and would also be dogged by embarrassingly detailed allegations of corruption on a stunningly blatant scale. The candidate would insist that everything was just fine with America, and anyone who disagreed was just being negative. Oh, and it would help if the candidate had engaged in race-baiting behavior, and had insisted that a woman’s claim that she was raped wasn’t to be taken seriously if it was directed at a member of the candidate’s own family.

That is to say, the rank and file Democrats’ idea of the worst possible President is Hillary Clinton.
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/ ... t.html?m=1

BRUTE
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Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

haha true. brute's democrat-until-hell-freezes-over friend from Portland is abstaining from voting this time rather than vote Hillary ;) he said he would've voted for Bernie

Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Riggerjack »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Stein

https://www.johnsonweld.com/

Abstaining is to be playing the game by Demopublican rules. Unless you are in a swing state, a vote for HRC or Trump is exercised futility. And can be linked to cancer.

Dragline
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Dragline »

ffj wrote: I do agree however with the premise that people are much more honest when they are anonymous and don't have to suffer criticism for their viewpoints and that is going to be a factor this November.
Why do you agree with that premise? Do people who answer random polls really "suffer criticism for their viewpoints" by somebody recording their preference in a box? And if so, how -- unless they shared what they told the pollster with others on their own?

I think that people with firm viewpoints like to vocalize them and signal to like-minded individuals. And the internet provides even greater opportunities for such signaling.

ffj
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:16 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by ffj »

Because it is one thing to believe something, especially what many are calling a move only dumb or racist people think, and quite another to vocalize it, even to someone you will never meet. Do you know how many times I have refrained from typing something out in this largely anonymous forum? I'll never meet most people here, but it still matters how others perceive me.

Polls are used as a persuasion tactic, and if one thinks (as I do) that they are purposely being manipulated to favor one candidate or the other than the relevance of them needs to be discussed. I also think that the Brexit vote should be an example of accuracy/inaccuracy of polls, and telling of what people actually do once that curtain is drawn around them at the voting booth.

BRUTE
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

brute completely agrees with ffj. Dragline only need take one look at 4chan to realize anonymity lets out the true self.

shade-tree
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 9:02 pm

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by shade-tree »

Any person with ambition and a long resume will have some evidence of failure/bad decisions, etc. Some of it will look wise in the rear view mirror, some decisions won't. Hilary's worst problem seems to be having actually done a lot. Younger candidates, ones who sat on one job for a couple of decades and those with 'outsider' status won't have as much political baggage, obviously.

Dragline
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Dragline »

shade-tree wrote:Any person with ambition and a long resume will have some evidence of failure/bad decisions, etc. Some of it will look wise in the rear view mirror, some decisions won't. Hilary's worst problem seems to be having actually done a lot. Younger candidates, ones who sat on one job for a couple of decades and those with 'outsider' status won't have as much political baggage, obviously.
Just like Nixon in '68 . . .

Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Riggerjack »

"Hilary's worst problem seems to be having actually done a lot"

Of evil.

But seriously, what and who are you talking about? What younger, purer, candidate is she up against? Are you talking about 3rd party candidates? And your argument is that they just haven't been around long enough to get as corrupt?

Did you follow any of the links in this thread?

Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by Riggerjack »

BTW, my new tenants were Bernie fans. So much so that they didn't install cable when they moved in. Angry about media manipulation. A Boomer and a gen Xer.

Their bumper now sports: "Giant Meteor 2016, just end it." ;-)

BRUTE
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

Riggerjack wrote:"Giant Meteor 2016, just end it." ;-)
now that's a message brute can get behind. brute's short civilization anyway.

BRUTE
Posts: 3803
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Clinton Coverup Queen

Post by BRUTE »

brute just checked. the youngest candidate by far who's still in the race is Gary Johnson at 63. He entered politics in 1994. the biggest crime brute can detect is that he's called Johnson (hrhr). maybe this young puppy is who shade-tree is referring to?

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