Political correctness run amok

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:17 am

One of the earliest studies in the science of sociology examined poverty and class in London in the early 20th century. The number one factor that determined whether a child would stay stuck in the very lowest income class was how much alcohol his mother consumed. Poor maternal care will not be overcome. Doesn't matter if you are the poor little black child named Da'Veon burning up with strep throat fever in the portable unit that has been set up as a temporary first grade in a blighted neighborhood surrounded otherwise by the affluence of 21st century America or never will grow tall, very pale 5th son of alcoholic mother in 1905 London. Shame, shame, shame on us for allowing this to continue to happen. Shame, shame, shame on every affluent idiot sitting off in some ivory tower spinning theories that would inform them that the white person in authority in such a situation is racist and directly to blame. I have been the white person in direct authority in that situation and I am telling you the primary problem isn't racism it is that you didn't show up to volunteer to help me. Instead you wasted your time just signaling the proper attitude to each other. Or not.

The problem in our society is that nobody is doing "woman's work" anymore, because everybody wants to be elite and independent.

GandK
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by GandK » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:41 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:17 am
The problem in our society is that nobody is doing "woman's work" anymore, because everybody wants to be elite and independent.
This is brilliant, true, and sad.

It's also not because men. At all. Raise your hand if you're a woman and you've been shamed by other women for spending your day caring for your own offspring.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:38 pm

@GandK: Shame or scare. Lack of trust has become pandemic.

BRUTE
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by BRUTE » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:18 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:17 am
The problem in our society is that nobody is doing "woman's work" anymore, because everybody wants to be elite and independent.
or, because if human males are around children, they're considered pedophiles. even their own children.

brute knows human males that have told him they will not be alone in a room with any of their extended family's children, because they fear being falsely accused of something. they will leave the room if need be. they will not babysit, they will not change diapers, they will not watch the kid for 5 minutes while mommy is in the kitchen fixing dinner.

must be great.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:06 pm

@BRUTE:

Right. Other side of the same coin of the institutionalization of the maternal. I know several affluent men who were basically strong-armed out of custody of their children on the basis of not exhibiting perfect behavior. One of the top purchasers of advertising air time for pro-Trump radio shock jocks in my region is a law firm specializing in defending men in divorce custody battles. If you think your young single peers are driven to the right by hurt feelings, imagine the middle-aged guy called to account for every asinine thing he ever said or did in the heat of a declining spiral of mutual marital sadism with his continuing relationship with his children at stake. If you go postal you lose. If you don't go postal you lose.

An aspirational-class techie friend of mine hasn't seen his kids in 3 years. He still puts all of his extra money into a trust fund for them and keeps old pictures and toys around his house. His girlfriend couldn't deal. His dog just died. I am worried about him.

This isn't about the loss of some imagined previous privilege. There is real pain out there. I think this is why Steve Bannon.

Jean
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Jean » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Maybe, it could be worth it to talk about white males feeling. We can't agree on what are the facts, but as in the end, people act on feelings, an open non judgmental talk about them could help solve those issues.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:53 am

@Jean:

Well, rationals tend towards wanting to believe that they behave in alignment with their thoughts rather than their feelings. However, I would agree that if you take the white male human population as a whole, the average might be more like Captain Kirk than Mr. Spock. And, Captain Kirk would be totally busted on sexual harassment charges on the basis of his behavior in at least 10 episodes.

The presidential election results were very skewed on the basis of gender. A lot of this actually had to do with the fact that more middle-towards-aspirational class females work in public service vs. private industry positions, given a corporate world that pays highly for engineers and tech-types. Very common in my region, at least, for a female with a master's degree in social work or education to be married to a man who is a senior engineer or project manager. These couples, individuals who theoretically pool all of their economic resources, split their vote right down the middle of their marital bed for reasons they perhaps both felt emotionally, but also for reasons that could readily be categorized as "voting pocketbook." The few exceptions that proved the rule in my social circle made this very clear to me. For instance, I knew of only 1 white female public-school teacher (profession that has very strong union in my region) who voted for Trump, and the very easy to ascertain explanation for her behavior is that in addition to teaching, she owns and operates a private industry business with her husband as partner. I knew of 2 white male public-school teachers who voted for Trump, and the easy to ascertain explanation for their behavior was they were fed-up with the system and about to retire.

The proportion of married females who are not employed outside the home is much higher in rural areas than urban areas. Real estate is less expensive, but commutes to centers of employment are much longer, so the choice to have one parent remain at home is more likely. So, a middle-class white rural dweller would be less likely to vote her own individual public-sector pocketbook with Hillary, and more likely to vote her private-sector household pocket-book with Trump.

The reason why I can see this all very clearly is that just prior to the election I was semi-simultaneously dating a white male with a high-level job in public sector, a black male who was self-employed in the finance sector but also involved in local politics, and a white male with a high-level job in the private sector, and I had just ended a long-term relationship with a green man who was self-employed after early retiring from a high-level job in the private sector.

My point here being that behind all the hand-wringing and shouting, I rarely have been unable to feret out rational self-interest in alignment with voting on the part of anybody on any side. But whenever I try to talk about this, everybody gets mad at me because I am behaving too much like a person who doesn't have any feelings, like Mr. Spock, and that is especially unattractive behavior in a female.

The Old Man
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by The Old Man » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:07 am

Jean wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:03 pm
Maybe, it could be worth it to talk about white males feeling. We can't agree on what are the facts, but as in the end, people act on feelings, an open non judgmental talk about them could help solve those issues.
Feelings? Are you crazy. Men deal in logic. Women care about feelings. What may be at issue is the worldview based on the facts as they know them, may not be a correct interpretation.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:39 am

My worldview informs me that Persian men deal more in feelings than Bosnian men, with American men someplace in between, but they are all still thugs. Except, maybe, just maybe, Ed Sheeran.

baska
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by baska » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:40 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:53 am
...prior to the election I was semi-simultaneously dating a white male with a high-level job in public sector, a black male who was self-employed in the finance sector but also involved in local politics, and a white male with a high-level job in the private sector, and I had just ended a long-term relationship with a green man who was self-employed after early retiring from a high-level job in the private sector.
WOW. I love your posts. So many men. Just two private questions if I may (be so nosy):Whats is your lovers number of the 2017 year to this day? Would you date Klingon?
sincerly
Spock

fiby41
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by fiby41 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:42 am

Peanut wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:02 pm
I wanted to reply to something in particular that Brute wrote about hypothetical employers hypothetically choosing to underpay black vs Asian employees. I immediately thought of that study of how white-sounding named applicants (Beth) got 50% more callbacks than black-sounding named applicants (Lakisha).
Former Associate Director, White House Office of Public Liaison, and actor, Kalpen Modi also got 50% more callbacks after he Hellenized his name to Kal Penn.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:28 am

@baska/Spock:

I am an ethical slut, loyal to the rule-of-civil-contract-law-code of my father's people, and agreed to contract of monogamy last fall with current BF. We only recently agreed to open provisional contract, and I haven't had time or energy to acquire a new lover yet, due to other life stresses, so only 1 lover thus far in 2017. However, I did re-open my dating profile on Thursday, so I have a couple dozen to sort through, and things are otherwise on the upswing, so I'm guesstimating total of 3 by year's end. I have been sexually active for 37 years/27 lovers, so my average rate is less than 2/year with high variation. Maternity really slowed me down, and I only had sex with my husband for the 19 years of our contract, but only 1 one-night stand with a stranger in the mix. Mostly boyfriends or friends with whom I also shared sex, including one female friend.

It is likely that I would date a Klingon, simply on the basis of tall, dark, masculine and intelligent, but I doubt that I would form much of an emotional attachment to him. Ed Sheeran, otoh, would probably break my heart. Puppy-dog eyes are my Achilles heel.

@fiby41:

My maternal great-uncle (seriously imposing figure) dropped the -ski off the end of his name when he joined the Detroit Police force in the 1940s. My given names translate/mean something like white light female of the white people. I never have any problems with job applications that don't require lifting more than 50 lbs. I named my white son after an 18th century white male musician who was named after a 3rd century Christian martyr, but a surprisingly high percentage of American people don't know how to pronounce his name. I guess I subconsciously wanted to label him as a member of the aspirational-class. I don't think he has suffered too much from my choice.

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jennypenny
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by jennypenny » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:10 am

fiby41 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:42 am
Peanut wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:02 pm
I wanted to reply to something in particular that Brute wrote about hypothetical employers hypothetically choosing to underpay black vs Asian employees. I immediately thought of that study of how white-sounding named applicants (Beth) got 50% more callbacks than black-sounding named applicants (Lakisha).
Former Associate Director, White House Office of Public Liaison, and actor, Kalpen Modi also got 50% more callbacks after he Hellenized his name to Kal Penn.
People anglicizing their names to fit in better or to improve job prospects has always been pretty common in the US regardless of their ethnic group. It's not strictly tied to race. I've always wondered if people do it in other countries. DD has a Chinese name she uses when she's in China.


@7W5--You got me curious, so I had to look up who Ed Sheeran is. I've actually heard of one of his songs (I was so proud of myself lol). He's cute, but at this point I wouldn't want anyone I might have to mother. I'd take the Klingon.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:19 pm

@jennypenny: I was half-joking about Ed Sheeran to make a larger "the personal is political" point. I was particularly amused by the "Shape of You" video because I have been in the same relationship with the gender roles reversed more than once. If I had a penny for every time some street-smart-for-a-jock guy I was dating tried to whip me into shape...

The larger point I was trying to make is that superficial appearance or signaling of soft, sensitive, non-threatening, etc. does not necessarily correspond with pushed to the corner behavior. All humans and all human social groupings have aspects of good and bad in their character.

enigmaT120
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by enigmaT120 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:02 pm

I watched the video. I would enjoy finding somebody to whip me into shape.... I have to try those sit-ups she was doing on the heavy bag. The flying side kick at the end was performed wrong. I didn't understand the video: why did she leave him, then come back? And what was the sumo fight all about.

OTCW
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by OTCW » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:30 pm

My surname got anglicized when my grandparents were children. It sounded too German back when the Kaiser was public enemy number one in the US. Ironically my parents moved to a majority black city and raised us in a majority black neighborhood where the anglicized version of my surname was pretty common among African Americans.

BRUTE
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by BRUTE » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:12 pm

jennypenny wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:10 am
People anglicizing their names to fit in better or to improve job prospects has always been pretty common in the US regardless of their ethnic group. It's not strictly tied to race. I've always wondered if people do it in other countries. DD has a Chinese name she uses when she's in China.
very common, brute also knows humans who've done this when moving to China or Taiwan for a while.
jennypenny wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:10 am
@7W5--You got me curious, so I had to look up who Ed Sheeran is. I've actually heard of one of his songs (I was so proud of myself lol). He's cute, but at this point I wouldn't want anyone I might have to mother. I'd take the Klingon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDRJwCSEcoA

The Old Man
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by The Old Man » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:42 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:39 am
... Persian men ... Bosnian men ... but they are all still thugs.
Aren't you being a tad racist here? Or, is that your ironic point?

BRUTE
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by BRUTE » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:12 am

brute believes 7Wannabe5's point is that all human males are thugs. so it's probably more sexist than racist.

The Old Man
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by The Old Man » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:33 am

@ Brute and 7Wannabe5: Ahh, so that's it. Now I understand. Well I agree. Men are ...brute + s. Only a thin veneer keeps the inner cave-man from coming out.

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