Political correctness run amok

Should you squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle or from the end?
Spartan_Warrior
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:04 am

BTW, the fact that they did fire him outright kinda confirms my suspicion that there is NOT much merit to his claims of "illegal" practices, or at least that Google thinks they can handle them with ease. If there were any merit to his accusations I feel like they might have kept him closer and tried to play ball, if only because firing him is basically daring him to take his claims to a lawyer, which of course it sounds like he has. So, could be wrong, but my impression is that Google thinks it has nothing to fear from that.

Indeed, my brief research indicates that most forms of affirmative action would likely be legal in a private workplace as long as it meets some rather thin legal requirements to justify it.

All the more indication the rant came at least as much from a place of immaturity and a politically-fostered white male persecution complex as it did from any actual practice of Google.

@FFJ: LOL, agreed. Exactly right, Google execs don't actually give a shit about any of this either way--the man's rights or the women's--they just care about the company maintaining a "progressive" image so as to continue to compete for talent in that demographic. (I imagine this is also why they have a freaking "internal meme forum"...) If it were a "conservative" image and corporate culture and you spoke out about that similarly I'd expect an identical result. At the end of the day it's basically just a case of play stupid corporate games, win stupid corporate prizes.

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Riggerjack
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Riggerjack » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:15 am

@c40

I agree. The most live and let live place I have ever lived was Fairbanks Alaska.

And Portland is even worse for the in and out clannish behavior than Seattle. I have some nice memories of the times in Eugene Oregon, though. I think a hard core left minority in a moderate majority works well. When either fringe gets to be big enough, they just make the overall quality of life drop, though.

This is why I'm so blown away by the folks who want to go back to college towns in the ERE city thread. Small town with one industry that imports a fresh crop of clueless people every year? No thanks.

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TheWanderingScholar
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by TheWanderingScholar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:29 pm

To jump in on the live and let live personality of Alaska:

That overall personality combined with a level-headed political influence than it much higher than the 48 mainland is one of the main reason is that if I were to live in America, that place would be one of them. The main downside is it is expensive as heck all (can we cuss using the F-word? I forgot.) and there are too few people.

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BRUTE
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by BRUTE » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:55 pm

fuck

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TheWanderingScholar
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by TheWanderingScholar » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:42 am

BRUTE wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:55 pm
fuck
Fucking fair enough then. :)

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TopHatFox
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:27 pm

What are you fuckers talking about! :P

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:45 am

Olaz wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:27 pm
What are you fuckers talking about! :P
Fucking women in tech.

Not to be confused with fucking women in tech.

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distracted_at_work
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by distracted_at_work » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:38 am

Hello all. Didn't want to start a thread but I'd like some thoughts.

Two weeks ago I was drinking with a good friend and she angrily called me out for referring to Native Americans (Indians, Aboriginals, Indigenous etc) as "Natives" during conversation as I learned to do in school. She was quite incensed that we all must say Indigenous because any other word is offensive (I think the word was Aboriginals a few years ago but I can't say that either now). I argued that these folks on reserves are committing suicide in droves and rarely have access to clean drinking water, among other problems, who gives a flying fuck what label they have. She then threw in my face that as a privileged white male I can't offer an opinion ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! This then quickly turned into a shouting match as I, not calmly, tried to explain to her that being a white female born in Canada, this makes you pretty damn privileged and that all "privilege" is relative anyway. She disagreed. In the end, we made up in the interest of carrying on enjoying ourselves. However, looking back I'm still very enraged by this conversation.

Is throwing a "you are this you may not have an opinion on this" not a ridiculous thing to say to someone? How do I explain that I can't help how I was born? Or am I being the unreasonable person here? Neither of us are Native American so it seems like an insane thing to argue about.

This friend and I have always had civil disagreements but this may have crossed a line for me.

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BRUTE
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by BRUTE » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:28 pm

welcome to the basics of identity politics. only the victims have a right to an opinion. any arguments or facts to the contrary, especially by privileged individuals, are an affront to the lived experience and identity of the victim, and therefore impermissible.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:52 pm

Everybody knows that the human who stands up and hits the tree with the big stick to knock down the fruit ends up getting higher hourly wage than the humans who squats down and bends over with baby on back to gather the fruits into her apron. Duh. Downside is so much competition for the big stick job that some of those humans have to hit each other over the head with the big sticks to determine who should get the position. (citation: Pierre Bourdieu, "Masculine Domination")

IOW, if it came down to a determination that ability to pee while standing up was the only inherent difference between males and females, besides greater tendency towards aggression, the greater tendency towards aggression would result in competitive peeing being a prerequisite for higher wage. However, I don't much care because I would still be able to get a decent paying job calculating piss contest odds and/or some sort of domestic contract with somebody more likely to win a pissing contest.

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C40
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by C40 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:55 pm

distracted_at_work wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:38 am
Hello all. Didn't want to start a thread but I'd like some thoughts.

Two weeks ago I was drinking with a good friend and she angrily called me out for referring to Native Americans (Indians, Aboriginals, Indigenous etc) as "Natives" during conversation as I learned to do in school. She was quite incensed that we all must say Indigenous because any other word is offensive......
Your friend was not only being a jerk to you. She is also wrong.

There is not one single specific term that we're supposed to use for Native Americans, and because they are made up of so many different tribes and cultures and they have assimilated and also developed separately, there probably won't ever be.

A large number of Native Americans have shared that they prefer being called Indians, or American Indians. Often, their top preference is to be called by their "tribe" name - like Lakota, for example. (being called Lakotas, or Lakota people, fore example - and it is even trickier because often they prefer the tribe names very in complicated ways, and these names are in their own languages, and so on. And of course that doesn't work when talking about all of the Native Americans as a whole).

Here's an example, with specific input and reasons from four different American Indians: https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/c ... s-respond/

There are some terms that you shouldn't use, like redskins or savages, or chief. Those kind of terms are, more or less, the Native American version of "niggers", "beaners", or "wet backs". (and I don't believe Natives use these terms themselves). If I understand correctly, this is why there's much more controversy over the Washington Redksins than the Cleveland Indians or the Florida State Seminoles.

When it comes to the other more normal terms like Natives, Native American, Indians, American Indians, ect. those can sometimes be kind of the term "Mexican". They are normal and acceptable, and also they could possibly take on an offensive slant if used in an offensive tone. If someone says, for example "God, what's with these dirty fucking Indians around here?" you're getting into offensive territory.

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distracted_at_work
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by distracted_at_work » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:16 pm

C40 wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:55 pm
They are normal and acceptable, and also they could possibly take on an offensive slant if used in an offensive tone. If someone says, for example "God, what's with these dirty fucking Indians around here?" you're getting into offensive territory.
I should have mentioned in my original post that the context was something like "I've worked with Native bands in the past". That is, not intended to be offensive in tone or message. Thanks for the link, very interesting. I may share it with my friend.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:36 pm

I use First Nations People, Native People, or the tribe name. Native American or Indians is a bit of a twist name. Think about it. It's essentially colonists calling native people by the name they gave to the claimed territory. Either that, or the name of a country and people in Asia.

I agree, there are more important issues to solve than the name. It's only a start.

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C40
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by C40 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:15 pm

It's tricky because nearly all of the common names are not accurate.

"Natives" is not accurate because everyone born in the U.S. is native.

"Indians" is obviously not accurate, though now, because word meanings do change, it includes both "red dot Indians" and "feather Indians"

"Indigenous" (meaning "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.") is odd and only partly accurate, because what does "occurring naturally" mean in this case?...)

There's really not any name to accurately describe "descendants of people who walked over here on a land bridge about 15,000 years ago".

"Aboriginal" is spot on, but it is not used much to refer to American Indians. Google defines it as "(of human races, animals, and plants) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists"). If I hear "Aboriginal", I assume people are talking about Aboriginals in Australia.

Maybe the most technically correct term would be "Aboriginal people of the northwestern hemisphere", but nobody's using that. And anyways, the people living now are the descendants of those people. Many 'Aboriginal people of the northwestern hemisphere' just consider themselves "Americans".

So anyways, there just isn't one name that is both entirely recognizable and never offensive. You just can't win here. The good thing is that Indians understand this, are mostly all level-headed about it, and they aren't going to freak out on you about it.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:20 pm

You could show her the article and continue the discussion if you can do so tactfully, and/or just get over this injustice to your feelings and need to be right, accept that you both have good intentions at heart and it will likely never come up again, and proceed with your relationship like normal.

That said, it is a ridiculous thing to get hung-up on in context, and exactly the kind of liberal bullshit that gives the political correctness bogeyman any legs at all.

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bryan
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by bryan » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:59 pm

@Spartan_Warrior, unfortunately it's instances like those that stand out and everyone latches onto. They seem common enough? Some issues e.g. "cultural appropriation" are definitely common and also seem like bullshit, to me (i.e. Oh really? I'm not allowed to enjoy certain things without feeling the appropriate levels of guilt? Or something?).

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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:19 am

@Bryan:

Agreed, I expect this is very representative of the average incident of "political correctness", with similarly representative stakes: hurt feelings.

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bryan
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by bryan » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:18 pm

What do you mean hurt feelings? That it's the only effect of "political correctness run amok"?

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BRUTE
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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by BRUTE » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Spartan_Warrior wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:19 am
Agreed, I expect this is very representative of the average incident of "political correctness", with similarly representative stakes: hurt feelings.
hurt feelings that drive reasonable humans from the center away from PC and towards alt-right. it's incredible how many of brute's basically liberal friends have started consuming pepe memes and Breitbart, after the PC zealots had driven them off with identity politics.

because they are sexist and racist, the PC warriors seem to believe it's OK to insult whites and males, like Spartan_Warrior does above ("all they have to show for is hurt feelings"). that whites and males make up 34-40% of the country, and they're driving them right into the arms of whoever is not PC, and that the alt-right uses this to legitimize their own racism, doesn't seem to bother the PC nazis as long as they get to feel righteous.

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Re: Political correctness run amok

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:07 pm

@Brute:

"PC nazis"

Wew. We get it, if you're against fascism you're the real fascist.

It's funny how you provide a living example of what I'm talking about, and from your perspective of imaginary persecution, I provide an example of yours, by pointing out your imaginary persecution.

@Bryan:

Almost universally, barring outlier events, yeah.

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