Trump - Clown Genius

Should you squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle or from the end?
Locked
User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3862
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:50 am

@Gilberto
Yes, it could very well be anarchists, as they have been linked to other events like this.
https://www.thenation.com/article/anti- ... e-streets/
But, it really doesn't matter. 95% of the population won't do enough research to understand the difference between the majority of the protesters and these people. Everyone thinks these protesters are always an organized group with a chain of command, but mostly they are not. Bad actors always take advantage of this cover.

This appears to document the anarchist anti-fascist group. Per the Berkeley police Chief:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html
On Thursday, UC Berkeley Police Chief Margo Bennett blamed the problems on so-called black bloc protesters who marched onto campus in military fashion, brandishing clubs, high-grade fireworks, baseball bats and homemade shields.

“We had a controlled environment up until the moment when the black bloc arrived,” Bennett said.

Black bloc protesters, who dress in all black and keep their faces covered with bandannas, have become a fixture of Bay Area demonstrations in the past decade, particularly in Oakland. They tend to attach themselves to peaceful protests before breaking out to start shattering windows and vandalizing property.
@IlliniDave
I did a quick search for "university of california to punish conservative student group" along with a few variations of that and found nothing relating to the event at Cal.

It appears the conservative group themselves canceled the event:
The cancellation of his talk at UC Davis sparked debate about the limits of free speech and hate speech. Davis College Republicans decided it was unsafe to continue the event after a large number of protesters blocked access to the venue, according to a release from the school.
And, Berkley admin was letting it go on:
So far, the UC system has resisted calls to cancel Yiannopoulos’ talks. At noon, just hours before Wednesday’s event, Berkeley administrators issued a statement saying they were committed to tolerance as well as free speech.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Other large news organizations like NBC and Fox both just said, "UC Berkely cancels event", but that sounds like lazy reporting. Not that it couldn't have been the school. The police were probably pushing for it to be canceled after that group showed up, but by not being more specific NBC and others just sound like they didn't do the work.

User avatar
Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:21 am

I have a story that somewhat relates to this issue that I just remembered. I was involved in a peaceful protest where, after a few days, some people showed up who did their best to start a fight with the protesters. One agitator would get in the face of a protester, insult them with some really foul commentary, and try to get the protester to push or hit them. The interesting thing is that when this happened there was always the same person filming the action. It was an organized effort to try to incite violence and get it on video in order to make the protesters look violent.

I don't have any evidence of this, just a personal anecdote.

IlliniDave
Posts: 1688
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:51 am

Gilberto de Piento wrote: Certainly every news organization has made mistakes but there is a big difference between NPR or the BBC and Breitbart. This is exactly what the people who want to control you hope you will do.
I've never listened to or read a word from Breitbart or his organization (though I have heard Ben Shapiro a few times who was at one time associated with them I believe). What I heard was an audio clip someone at work played for me from a prominent conservative commentator (who repeatedly declares he is not a journalist, but a commentator, and is not Rush or Drudge) who is openly partisan. Two years ago I would have believed he would have the facts reasonably correct even when I thought he was off in the weeds with his interpretation/opinion on them. Now I don't know. And as I opened with, I also might have misheard what he was saying because I really was only half-listening out of politeness.

I listen to NPR every day but my faith in their objectivity is swirling in the bowl and all but flushed away. But they are still better than most. The main problem is their editorial decisions on what to cover as "news". It gets to be spin by omission/imbalance. It's worse from the MSM. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it didn't happen (and sometimes the converse).

That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate. That the campus police shut down the event once things got out of hand is understandable from a safety perspective, though arguably security could have been more proactive. UC Berkley aside, the event doesn't speak well of tolerance for differing viewpoints in our country at this time. Milo Y is a blatant agitator, but it's not like the same sort of agitation isn't coming from some facets of the other side (he's really just a copycat, IMO).

I'd meant to stay away from this thread/topic. I hopefully won't backslide again. :) My guitar calls ...

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3862
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:05 pm

Yes, this will bring everyone together.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/02/m ... -amendment

User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:44 am

IlliniDave wrote: That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate.
I think Trump knows who his people are, and some of them do have a bone to pick with UC Berkeley. To people in the midwest (well, a couple conversations at the brewpub I was at tonight), the UC Berkleyans are a bunch of 'hippieliberalfaggots' who don't let other people hear differing viewpoints. There's obviously some commonsense truth to this. If this Milo dude wants to talk to people who want to hear him, it's pretty shitty of people to prevent that.

IlliniDave
Posts: 1688
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by IlliniDave » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:48 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
IlliniDave wrote: That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate.
I think Trump knows who his people are, and some of them do have a bone to pick with UC Berkeley. To people in the midwest (well, a couple conversations at the brewpub I was at tonight), the UC Berkleyans are a bunch of 'hippieliberalfaggots' who don't let other people hear differing viewpoints. There's obviously some commonsense truth to this. If this Milo dude wants to talk to people who want to hear him, it's pretty shitty of people to prevent that.
What part of the Midwest are you in? That sounds quite unlike the Midwest I am a native of. I currently live in a southern state and they'll only go so far as to dismissively refer to a place like UC Berkley as a bunch of communists :) . Milo Y is an interesting character who appears to be on a crusade to adopt some of the left's recent rhetorical tactics and leverage his "status" as an openly gay conservative. I don't see where he adds a ton of value to the discussion, but I agree it's sad to see people silenced via violence or threats of violence. I think all three of his scheduled appearances on UC-system campuses were ultimately shut down one way or another. The great irony is that the side that accuses the other side of fascism sees that as a victory.

Campitor
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:12 am

Chad wrote:Yes, this will bring everyone together.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/02/m ... -amendment
Personally I feel the Johnson Amendment should be repealed because it limits free speech and is selectively enforced. Depending on the party in charge, they often selectively use this amendment to stifle political speeches for Churches but not organizations like Planned Parenthood and visa-versa. The loss of tax exempt status leaves an organization vulnerable to retribution via punitive taxes and fines - an organization could be taxed out of existence. Repealing this law would mean Planned Parenthood could openly advocate for candidates that support its mission and Churches can advocate for candidates that support theirs without fear of retaliatory tax burdens. This law needs to go and it should be a bipartisan effort.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... d-legisla/
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/planne ... democrats/

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3862
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:14 am

That would be fine, except the religious side is always trying to force others to live how they live. For example, Planned Parenthood does not force anyone to have an abortion or use birth control, while the religious side wants to force people not too.

This is a huge difference.

Campitor
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:29 am

Chad wrote:That would be fine, except the religious side is always trying to force others to live how they live. For example, Planned Parenthood does not force anyone to have an abortion or use birth control, while the religious side wants to force people not too.

This is a huge difference.
I agree that it is a huge difference which is why the power of Johnson amendment shouldn't be available to anyone. As long as it's a law, it will be abused regardless if one side abuses it more than the other.
Last edited by Campitor on Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3862
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:38 am

This has nothing to do with Dodd-Frank.

User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:48 am

IlliniDave wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:
IlliniDave wrote: That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate.
I think Trump knows who his people are, and some of them do have a bone to pick with UC Berkeley. To people in the midwest (well, a couple conversations at the brewpub I was at tonight), the UC Berkleyans are a bunch of 'hippieliberalfaggots' who don't let other people hear differing viewpoints. There's obviously some commonsense truth to this. If this Milo dude wants to talk to people who want to hear him, it's pretty shitty of people to prevent that.
What part of the Midwest are you in? That sounds quite unlike the Midwest I am a native of. I currently live in a southern state and they'll only go so far as to dismissively refer to a place like UC Berkley as a bunch of communists :) . Milo Y is an interesting character who appears to be on a crusade to adopt some of the left's recent rhetorical tactics and leverage his "status" as an openly gay conservative. I don't see where he adds a ton of value to the discussion, but I agree it's sad to see people silenced via violence or threats of violence. I think all three of his scheduled appearances on UC-system campuses were ultimately shut down one way or another. The great irony is that the side that accuses the other side of fascism sees that as a victory.
Cincinnati. I'm sure people who politely disparage while sober get more enthusiastic in their cups. In vino veritas. I am not familiar with this Milo dude, but I don't think it's a good idea to try to suppress viewpoints and information in general.

Campitor
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:31 am

Chad wrote:This has nothing to do with Dodd-Frank.
Fixed - I had Dodd-Frank on my mind from another thread. Thanks for pointing it out.

User avatar
JohnnyH
Posts: 2007
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Rockies

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by JohnnyH » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:44 am

bryan wrote:That's what I mean, he should be condemning the violence-lubbers along with some inspirational message or something.. not threatening the University/peaceful protesters or pitting Americans against each other. From all reports the University was completely doing the right things (despite their historical penchant for using pepper spray on people). https://twitter.com/ncweaver/status/827141794211049472
Dozens of UCB police caught standing around in UC while rioters destroy businesses and beat people say otherwise.

Campitor
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:49 pm

JohnnyH wrote:
bryan wrote:That's what I mean, he should be condemning the violence-lubbers along with some inspirational message or something.. not threatening the University/peaceful protesters or pitting Americans against each other. From all reports the University was completely doing the right things (despite their historical penchant for using pepper spray on people). https://twitter.com/ncweaver/status/827141794211049472
Dozens of UCB police caught standing around in UC while rioters destroy businesses and beat people say otherwise.
The videos I watched showed the Police weren't perturbed by the games of human piñata but did intervene once the ATMs started being desecrated and merchant materials were used as bonfire fuel. I imagine tear-gas and water cannons would have been deployed if a Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme was attacked.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3862
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:51 pm

Campitor wrote:
Chad wrote:This has nothing to do with Dodd-Frank.
Fixed - I had Dodd-Frank on my mind from another thread. Thanks for pointing it out.
I kind of assumed, but wasn't 100% sure.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3862
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:43 pm

I really hope he doesn't understand what he is doing. If he does, this is all very dangerous.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims ... 17625.html

George the original one
Posts: 4282
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by George the original one » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:07 pm

We're getting the clown genius president we knew as a candidate before the election. Those who believed it was an act and he would be different were regrettably mistaken.

subgard
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:53 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by subgard » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:17 pm

I really hope he doesn't understand what he is doing. If he does, this is all very dangerous.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims ... 17625.html
It's a classic psychopath trick.

In interpersonal life, psychopaths seek to destroy the credibility of those around them before they even say anything bad about the psychopath.
The more likely a person is to report something negative about the psychopath, the more likely the psychopath will do this. If the psychopath suspects you've realized what they're really like, prepare for a full on character assassination behind your back.

Trump will continue to do this. Notice how he attempted to discredit the Congressional Budget office before they even reported on the healthcare replacement plan.

User avatar
BRUTE
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by BRUTE » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:51 pm

tax returns leaked

George the original one
Posts: 4282
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by George the original one » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Somewhere in the beginning, Trump said something to the effect that he could be different things to different people. And now president Trump is no longer candidate Trump... just WHO did the country elect?!? Today's flip-flop quotes:

NATO: "I said it was obsolete. It's no longer obsolete," Trump said, adding that the Transatlantic alliance was adapting to the broader mission against Islamic militants that he had urged.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-n ... 40818.html

Interest rates: “I do like a low-interest rate policy, I must be honest with you,” Trump told the Journal.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trum ... 53931.html
President Donald Trump said Wednesday the U.S. dollar “is getting too strong” and he would prefer the Federal Reserve keep interest rates low.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-says ... 1492024312

Chinese currency manipulation: Mr. Trump, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, also said his administration won’t label China a currency manipulator in a report due this week.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-says ... 1492024312

User avatar
BRUTE
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by BRUTE » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:20 pm

one thing that seems unique to Trump, as far as brute has experienced in humans: he does not seem to hold any beliefs. i.e. his thoughts are entirely ephemeral. he can literally contradict the beginning of the sentence at the end of the sentence, and not conceive a logical contradiction.

brute therefore thinks it's a mistake to attribute a mental model to Trump that centers around "beliefs", "fli-flopping", or "lying". there's just no there there.

Jake9870
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:22 am
Location: Under the Great White North

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Jake9870 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:48 am

If one holds no firm moral beliefs and only bids to the will of the people that is the perfect politician, no?

User avatar
Dragline
Posts: 4450
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Dragline » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:36 am

No. The masses are asses and often want leaders to take actions that are often illegal in a "nation of laws" that protects individual rights (see Federalist Papers #s 10, 51), as the ancient will of crowds is to select arbitrary scapegoats and punish them. A bad politician relies upon and exploits the scapegoating mechanism for his own self-aggrandizement A good politician balances leadership, wisdom and the so-called "will of the people."

Trump believes in himself and in publicity to make himself "look good", particularly involving television. But he doesn't want to work too hard, either.

He is exactly what his history says he would be. Leopards don't change their spots, especially at age 70. Expect more missile strikes, ship and troop movements after he checks his poll numbers.

User avatar
BRUTE
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by BRUTE » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:36 am

it seems Dragline's "good" vs "bad" judgement is a personal preference. it definitely does not seem to correlate with "successful" and "unsuccessful" politicians in the sense of evolutionary fitness.

in fact, brute would suggest that the current system actively screens for and rewards the type of politician described by Jake9870

black_son_of_gray
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by black_son_of_gray » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:53 am

BRUTE wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:36 am
it definitely does not seem to correlate with "successful" and "unsuccessful" politicians in the sense of evolutionary fitness.
I think you're stretching a little too far. Evolution works on populations, not individuals, and over relatively long time scales. Also, "success" here is entirely dependent on time frame. Are extant horses an evolutionary success, because they are still around today, or a failure because they are the last branch remaining on a tree that is otherwise extinct? (Or are you referring to the evolving preferences of voters?)

An individual politician may be easily able to assume a powerful position, so that may be construed as "success" on a smaller scale (for that politician, at that time), but on a longer time scale and broader level that may be a "failure" for society/governance (e.g. if someone wholly incapable of wielding that power appropriately actually gets it, acting like a bull in a china shop) . Perhaps @BRUTE and @dragline just have different scales of observation.

Locked