Low cost living and quality of life/safety issues

[7Wannabe5]

Personally, I am most concerned with the recent wave of immigrants from Northern Europe. You know they don't shower with hot water and they eat nothing but beans. Have you ever had to sit next to one on a bus? It's disgusting.

[ohcanada]

Personally, I am most concerned with the recent wave of immigrants from Northern Europe. You know they don't shower with hot water and they eat nothing but beans. Have you ever had to sit next to one on a bus? It's disgusting.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp8300.pdf

[7Wannabe5]

Well, maybe some people can remain happy while drinking boiled coffee and reading the novels of Herman Koch but that doesn't mean I want them living on my street or given voting rights.

[tylerrr]

No, people like me use paragraphs and don't get lazy and use "..." all the freak'n time.

And, no we won't just have to disagree. I and others have proved our points over and over. Then when we obviously punch holes in your argument you never acknowledge it or even try to counter it. You make up new random points, that get shot down, yet again.

And you're an elitist who thinks he's smarter than everyone else with condescending language. You haven't proven anything except that you think letting in millions of illegal immigrants somehow makes the U.S.A a better place. You're wrong. I've proven it with links referencing other countries where it's turned out to be a disaster. Convenient to keep ignoring the obvious references i listed.

btw, Cozumel is an island resort town....completely different than Tijuana. I thought you would know that....since....well, you know everything.

Yeah, my language is condescending, but yours is nice and not in anyway trying to shout down anyone. You are the perfect gentleman, sorry. Actually, my discussion with SpartanW perfectly illustrates that I'm examining the option of trying to keep out all those "3rd world toilet bowel people" (your words), but based on what has actually happened it appears it's too costly even if I wanted too. And, I do to a certain extent. I don't think the border should be a free-for-all. But, maybe if I yell more and disparage all those people with semi-racist slurs it will make it all better. It won't cost a shit ton of money that I bitch about or new taxes I bitch about. Oh, wait, that's you.

I know Cozumel is an island resort, it doesn't change the grab bag of descriptors I through out there for it and Tijuana. Some of them apply to one and some the other.

Oh, and I examined the SINGLE link you provided. So, Germany thinks they failed, that's fine. Historically, the US succeeds massively with immigrants. It's kind of one of the secretes to our success. Be it Irish, Italian, Eastern European, and even non-immigrant slave decendants have contributed (Through, no choice of their own.). The hispanic immigrants have just begun contributing. Sure, some send cash back, but others stay. And, like everyone some suck, some are awesome.

Is their sending cash back really that bad? How awesome would it be to have Central America be mainly countries with solid economies? Decent places we could trade with (Of course, given our size and efficiency due to size we would still have a massive advantage). This money helps implement that (yes, there are also ways it doesn't, but the chance is worth taking given the small amounts). Sure, we could keep it here with legislation, but I thought you were a smaller government guy? Except when we need to up border patrol by twenty times? Lets be honest, that is the least amount we would have to increase the cost to even remotely stem the current tide. And, no just enforcing hiring practices would not be enough. What sheriff in that small Kansas town is going to raid the biggest employer and richest industry in his home town? None.

I'm just a realist. I pick the cheapest most advantageous policies based on what will really happen. You unhappy that not everything will be based off of white culture is not necessarily best for this country.

Read Guns, Germs, and Steel, and Why Nations Fail, with a focus on Why Nations Fail, and then you will understand my position.

Sure, i would love if all the people in Central America and the world had vibrant economies and we didn't have to worry about so many swarming our border and putting so much financial/social pressure on our institutions. It's a matter of practicality like you said....So what do we do about it? We've already given billions, if not trillions to help prop up lower economies and guess what? Most of the time, their government framework is so corrupt that it doesn't end up helping the average person that much....

Hence the messed up situation most Mexicans are still in within their country....You devise a way to prop up Central American economies and solve the problem and you will go down in history as a genius. It hasn't happened yet. We've been waiting a LONG time....Every politician talks about helping Mexico and other Central American countries become more prosperous because it benefits EVERYONE, including us, in the region. It sounds great, but doesn't happen.

BTW, every study I've read said the majority of money being made by illegal immigrants in the U.S. gets sent back to the home country. I'd rather it be spent here.

In the meantime, I don't believe it should be a free for all on our borders....Sane countries actually control their immigration. I know it's been allowed by our corrupt federal gov't.

It's about assimilation. The problem in France, Germany, Britain, and now us....Is if you don't have a sane, orderly immigration process, people don't assimilate well into the culture. You have whole neighborhoods who don't even speak the language and don't even WANT to assimilate. Then, they start demanding more financial help from the host government. Then, there is more social strife and division within the country....It only works if people are made to assimilate somehow or if they have the desire to assimilate.

What about whole Muslim neighborhoods in France and Britain and the Netherlands where many of the Muslim leaders have called for Sharia law? How is that working out in those countries? Is everyone holding hands and getting along across cultural lines? I thank God that at least most Latin immigrants have a Christian background making it easier to assimilate into a Christian-majority nation like the U.S. It would be a far worse situation if that wasn't the case....

I still think enforcing illegal immigration laws on employers is the best way to stop it....And yes, it would require many federal regulators/cops to start enforcing it and giving heavy fines to businesses who are caught employing illegal immigrants. The local cops don't have the man power. That solution would take away the main incentive for illegal immigration.

I did read Germs/Guns years ago.....

[Felix]

Personally, I am most concerned with the recent wave of immigrants from Northern Europe. You know they don't shower with hot water and they eat nothing but beans. Have you ever had to sit next to one on a bus? It's disgusting.

You are among cold-showering bean-eaters here.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4764
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4671

Poe's law is strong in this thread.

[workathome]

Personally, I am most concerned with the recent wave of immigrants from Northern Europe. You know they don't shower with hot water and they eat nothing but beans. Have you ever had to sit next to one on a bus? It's disgusting.

At church last Sunday the deacon was adamant about how we need to donate more money to the food drive because the only meat they had was lots of lamb... and they really need more variety. He was even made a couple authentic tearful pauses.

...and I was like "is he trolling?" ... is "only having lamb and more lamb" some kind of metaphor or a message from God? Maybe he's *really* saying they already have everything they need, because Jesus is the sacrificial lamb and this is a spiritual metaphor? (No, he wasn't) And then I started thinking about how Tyson tortures chickens. And how abstaining from meat is often a religious virtue. (I'm serious so far). Finally, I realized maybe it's my duty to send Jacob some steaks. Maybe its my duty to send everyone here some steaks.

[7Wannabe5]

Poe's law is strong in this thread.

I joke because otherwise I would be compelled to start pulling my hair out in small clumps.

Anyways, my straight paternal line great,great,great......grandfather came over on the second voyage of the Mayflower and founded a city in Massachusetts which is currently a bit of a cesspool (kind of like Tijuana but much colder.) Therefore, my vote is that anybody who can't prove ancestral property rights dating before let's say maybe 1650 should go back to where they came from and leave all the resources for me, me, me and a few of my dearest friends.

Of course, as the author Richard Rodriguez ("Brown: The Last Discovery of America") has noted, this rule-of-thumb might prove a bit problematic for those most-likely-to-contract-skin-cancer who currently reside in states with many cities with names such as San Antonio or San Francisco which are in the process of being re-populated by those of mostly mixed Native American and Spanish heritage.

[Felix]

I joke because otherwise I would be compelled to start pulling my hair out in small clumps.

Phew. That was expertly done. I really couldn't tell either way thanks to the follow-up.

They also live in trailers, keep animals, criticize our American way of life and take our jobs. The worst thing is they spread their insubordination on the internet and corrupt our youth!!

Oh well, better than the first immigrants. They followed a strange religion, brought deadly diseases in their filth, took all the land and killed all the buffalo.

[Chad]

I joke because otherwise I would be compelled to start pulling my hair out in small clumps.

Phew. That was expertly done. I really couldn't tell either way thanks to the follow-up.

They also live in trailers, keep animals, criticize our American way of life and take our jobs. The worst thing is they spread their insubordination on the internet and corrupt our youth!!

Oh well, better than the first immigrants. They followed a strange religion, brought deadly diseases in their filth, took all the land and killed all the buffalo.

That's really unfair Felix. The first immigrants probably didn't kill many buffalo, as it took a while to actually get out to the plains.

[Felix]

That's just what Obama wants you to believe.

[jennypenny]

And the main stream media. You know they're in cahoots.

[RealPerson]

And the main stream media. You know they're in cahoots.

They're not in cahoots. They're simply in loooove! You can't blame a journalist for being lovedrunk. That happens to the best 5 or 6000.

[workathome]

I was thinking about illegally immigrating to Mars.

[tylerrr]

It's not about being more compassionate than anyone. It's a statement about what I believe in, which is humanely addressing the issue of illegal immigration without denigrating or persecuting entire groups of people.

I guess you missed the part where I denigrated the federal government for allowing it to happen...It looks like you want to see and hear what you want to see and hear....

Some people are looking around every corner for an opportunity to point the finger and yell "racist". The game being played is "if you want secure borders and a lawful immigration policy, that means you're a racist". A total lie that's being used to try and silence people. I guess it pisses people off when they refuse to be silenced.

Saying that I think Tijuana is a toilet bowl, which it is if you visit, and that I don't like Mexico is just an opinion based on real-world visits. But you're getting all upset that anyone would dare criticize a country in central america. Again, for the 10th time, I loved Costa Rica and the people there when visiting...I simply don't like Mexico and don't want millions of their uneducated, a number of them in our prison systems, illegally flooding into the country causing more harm than good

Arms are wide open for PHds , engineers, doctors, accountants, etc.

We have our arms wide open for all of your huddled, educated, professional masses.

Don't we have enough deadbeats in this country collecting bogus disability payments from social security to work in the fields and restaurants? Take away their welfare and put them in the fields and restaurants...There you go, I just solved the labor problem.

[theanimal]

Arms are wide open for PHds , engineers, doctors, accountants, etc.

We have our arms wide open for all of your huddled, educated, professional masses.

Do you realize how many people who have emigrated to the United States since the 1600s would fail to meet your standards? People usually emigrate for better opportunities.

[llorona]

@Tylerrr: It's not so much what you're saying as how you're saying it while judging entire nations and groups of people. Your language is offensive and reeks of supremacy. But God forbid anyone point that out because, oh, you're married to a Latina so you couldn't possibly be racist.

But, hey, this is all a pointless debate anyway because, in your words:

"The super majority is being created and will permanently change the country."

Arriba Mexico!

[Riggerjack]

I have hired what I assume to be undocumented Mexican laborers. I literally couldn't get Americans to answer an ad for 15 bucks an hour to do shovel work with me.
After the first day, I went to the INS website to see what Pedro would have to do to get a green card. I was shocked to find that I'm only qualified by birth to work here. I was born here, so I don't need a green card. I'm qualified to apply, because I have family here. Other than that, Uncle Sam says F-off.
I'm a productive law abiding taxpayer, but I don't have unique qualifications, or a college degree, or a sponsoring company.
If I were born 1500 miles south, there would be no legitimate path for me to get a green card. Being fairly ambitious, I'd be here with whatever fake papers allowed me to get ahead.
all this calling to enforce existing laws ignores the complete inadequacy of current law.
we have a black market in labor and documentation. That is a regulatory failure. I blame Ted Kennedy, this is his BS law, anyway.

[Riggerjack]

As for solutions, i like the Swiss system.
Immigrants have qualifications to meet, then a time limit, followed by a citizenship vote from their native neighbors.
if you want to move here and be an American, great. Learn the language, assimilate, etc. What we don't need is little Juarez, pockets of foreign cultures that serve to galvanize some of the attitudes seen here.

And we need a guest worker policy that kills the black market for labor, and collects taxes. We need to provide a legit path the work here for those who would like to.

[GandK]

Here's more on the subject, from Pacific Standard:

On Immigrants, Diseases, and Fishbowls

[workathome]

Here's more on the subject, from Pacific Standard:

On Immigrants, Diseases, and Fishbowls

So the article basically states that, "Yes, they are bringing diseases, but it's beyond the pale to point it out. Really, you should hate yourself."