Bundy Ranch Standoff

Intended for constructive conversations. Exhibits of polarizing tribalism will be deleted.
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Bundy Ranch Standoff

Post by Riggerjack »

@ Jacob.
A few individual conservationists buying up 40acres here and 250acres there pretending to save the world by converting small lots into private vistas, "two mile nature walks", or prime hunting grounds using Japanese mini-tractors to create a wildlife shooting gallery and posing for a selfie in front of a trophy six-pointer deer, and then deeding it for non-development upon their death are not quite getting the job done either. Sure, they're doing some job, but it's not enough in the grand scheme of things. Consider it 1% of the way there. It's moving in the right direction, but there are not nearly enough people doing this compared to ...
Demmit. You're right. I went looking into conservationist vs environmentalist, trying to get a feel for the quantity of land preserved. I didn't find it. What I did find was a ridiculous number of "conservationist blogs" that far better matched your description than mine.

As near as I can tell, it's rural redshirts tired of conceding the moral high ground to such obviously oblivious blueshirts. It sounded a lot like some of the things I have said, which I find deeply embarrassing. Oddly, conservation easements and other long term solutions we're never even mentioned. But "saving nature as a resource" was beaten like a drum.

This is starting to be a pattern, the words I grew up with changing meaning while I'm not looking.

Also, while I was busy being creeped out by what is now calling itself conservationists, I thought back to some of the crazy nasty chemicals I have seen in chip plants. Intel, Sony, and Fluke all have barrels of chemical waste they store to send back for refining. In all the companies I have been in, chemical waste has always been handled like this. As a resource. But I know, and sometimes forget, it wasn't always so. Nobody is going to keep barrels of waste cyanide with traces of heavy metals to refine if dumping is cheaper than refining, unless everyone else has to as well. This isn't something an individual company can sustainably do long term, on it's own.

So on top of spectacularly bad land use law, and some bad nuke propaganda, environmental groups have given us some much better industrial pollution law, and acknowledging one accomplishment without the others is hardly a balanced view. In all honesty, while doing things badly (setting up the rules to incentivize counterproductive behavior), drives me a bit nuts; I don't think going through the political process can produce better results, and it's petty of me to complain about it. Especially, since I'm not willing to put the effort in to "show em how it's done."

My point in the posts above, was that if one has the resources, and the desire, there are means to permanently put one's money where one's mouth is, if that is appealing. And reading over those posts, it appears I forgot to make that as clear as I wanted. :oops:

Posts: 1135
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: Bundy Ranch Standoff

Post by enigmaT120 »

I still like your idea of cemeteries in the woods, to preserve the forest. I don't think I want to do it with my place, but I like it.

Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Bundy Ranch Standoff

Post by Riggerjack »

Yeah. I plan on spending my retirement building businesses to shovel money to where it can be used effectively. Planting people to make new old growth is an idea I ran into back in my late 20's. There are many green cemeteries out there, but they are being run like cemeteries, not like charities. I don't want to maximize the revenue, I want to maximize the amount of land preserved.

My goal is to buy up clear-cuts, and then sell the minimum number of graves to pay it off and allow for a minimal maintenance fund. I will have to deal with keeping access open until the graves are filled, and closing it off after. A good friend says he's cool with being the caretaker, which in itself is a cool retirement project.

Most folks die broke. But there are plenty of the other kind, and giving them the chance to put their money to good use, plus the vanity of a mausoleum in a level grassed field full of other graves, or on the side of a mountain, in your private family cemetery, I think I can sell em on the exclusive, private option. Plus, who wouldn't want to have friends and family visiting in the woods, rather than a lawn?

Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:37 pm

Re: Bundy Ranch Standoff

Post by EMJ »

Conservation Burial

As an alternative to conventional burial and cremation, conservation burial conserves the beauty and open space of our rural lands through a return to natural burial methods. It bears no resemblance to a conventional cemetery site; instead, it is a sanctuary of natural beauty.

Principles include:

Permanent conservation of the land with a certified Land Trust
Biological and environmental restoration of the land and habitat
Prohibition of the introduction of any destructive or hazardous materials into the habitat
Allows for the natural and rapid decomposition of the body and recycling directly back to the soil
Low costs. Because of the simplicity of the natural burial process and minimal maintenance of the grounds, the costs of natural burial are substantially lower than conventional burial
The grounds of a conservation site remain forever natural and wild, with trails and paths connecting the burial grounds, open to the families and friends of the loved ones buried there. It is a place of simple, natural beauty and tranquility, unmarred by raised markers, headstones or artificial monuments
The forever-protected land is the monument to the lives of the buried.


Or http://www.herlandforest.org/

Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Bundy Ranch Standoff

Post by Riggerjack »

Yeah, there are a lot of those. It just makes sense, if you run a cemetery, you buy a chunk of land, divide it into roads and paths, and sell 3x6 plots as fast as you can. Those plots pay for the costs of clearing, building roads, and eternal landscaping.

We who think in longer term money rarely need to think in such terms. The legal term is in perpetuity.

So when you buy your gravesite, you are buying a little bit of land, and a membership in a lawn mowing club. You pay your dues up front, to ensure your piece of land is mowed forever.

So if a cemetery can eliminate the landscaping, and get people to buy a small piece of land, and membership in a nature appreciation club, well, that will make money!

But I don't have the profit of the cemetery as my main goal. I want to plant people in gravesites of a few acres. Can't spread them too thin, or there won't be enough outrage when generations down the road, someone wants to develop the land. Can't pack em like standard cemeteries, or it's a waste of my time.

Or, maybe I will get lucky, and someone will beat me to it.

Post Reply