Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

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the_platypus
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Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:03 am

Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by the_platypus »

Seems like O&G companies, especially in Texas, are making good money and potentially good political progress on the recent power outages.

Just today EIA has natural gas spot prices at 350 in the Houston region.

Republicans like U.S. Sen. Steve Daines say, via Twitter, “This is a perfect example of the need for reliable energy sources like natural gas & coal."

PolitiFact regards the assertion that recent shortages are caused primarily by renewables as untrue, "Of the power shortfall that hit Texas, over 80% was due to problems at coal- and gas-fired plants."

A recent paper from Carnegie Mellon finds that the shortages are primarily caused for business reasons -- commercial and industrial purchasers being prioritized over energy companies. [ETA: The Carnegie Mellon paper did say, "The vast majority of the natural gas generator outages due to fuel unavailability were due to curtailment of gas when supplies were tight." This would seem to support the claim that more pipelines/NG supplies need to be developed to prevent situations of tight supply.]

Perhaps this helps O&G companies recover from what I understand were very lean times in 2020?

I wonder if there will be increased support for pipelines in the future?

[ETA take 2]: Meanwhile, across the wide, wide Atlantic ocean, Mark Boyle cracks a sly smile. LOL.
Last edited by the_platypus on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Alphaville
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Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by Alphaville »

i shook my head when i saw the fossil fuel camp push their narrative yesterday, especially in the face of non-winterized natural gas plant failures.

and it's true that we need a better energy mix, but not more necessarily more fossil fuels, particularly coal. we need green power storage maybe...

also i'm cautiously pro-nuclear. sure there is three mile island and chernobyl and fukushima, but there is also... france. how does france do it? i don't know.

but anyway also i don't understand the texas power grid--i only know it's different/unregulated/something.

the_platypus
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Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:03 am

Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by the_platypus »

Social media was ugly, from what I saw, from far, far away (not having social media). Typical highly up-voted responses (dramatized for fun):

- I pay the bill so I have the right to set it to 74 gosh darn it.
- Those hippies sure did bungle our bananas this time with their "sustainable energy"
- Time to gloat why FF are GOAT
- Not rationing energy use is a DSM-5 criterion for ASPD.

I don't know much of energy or economics but this is a handy map: https://poweroutage.us/

Toska2
Posts: 363
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Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by Toska2 »

Politifact has a distinct slant. Saying half of wind energy down because "its expected" and the shortfall wasn't mainly wind's fault. Well if wind is only 20-25% of the total energy produced, it stands to reason it was only 20-25% of the problem.

As for the energy problem, its works until it doesn't. People arent going to pay more voluntarily*.

*Unless its a government solution where we all can pay. Adding a wood stove and extra insurance is not.

sky
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 am

Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by sky »

It seems like the problem is poor management, not the source of the energy.

chenda
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Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by chenda »

the_platypus wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:36 am
[ETA take 2]: Meanwhile, across the wide, wide Atlantic ocean, Mark Boyle cracks a sly smile. LOL.
Ben Fogle has done a documentary about him on UK Channel 5, New Lives in the Wild. The latest series is worth a watch there's some interesting people living off grid, ERE-esq lifestyles and the like.

Campitor
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by Campitor »

The article I read today said the problem was caused by insufficient insulation around the pipes that deliver natural gas and not by any reliance on green energy. Time to break out the old tech:

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/02 ... paces.html
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/02 ... rwear.html

Laura Ingalls
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Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by Laura Ingalls »

One of the other issues is plants go down for scheduled maintenance in the off season ie now.

chenda
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Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by chenda »

Alphaville wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:47 am
also i'm cautiously pro-nuclear. sure there is three mile island and chernobyl and fukushima, but there is also... france. how does france do it? i don't know.
I believe it partially originated by a desire to reduce oil dependency in the 1970s from the middle east. I think France got it right, and saved us from a big dollop of CO2 in the atmosphere. Switzerland is also almost entirely Nuclear or Hydro.

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Alphaville
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Re: Recent power outages and natural gas shortages

Post by Alphaville »

chenda wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:21 pm
I believe it partially originated by a desire to reduce oil dependency in the 1970s from the middle east. I think France got it right, and saved us from a big dollop of CO2 in the atmosphere. Switzerland is also almost entirely Nuclear or Hydro.
oh, right, i meant their safety record. especially with so many reactors.

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