Social Credit System

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Seppia
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Re: Social Credit System

Post by Seppia »

Riggerjack wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 pm
Taller fences and more powerful shepherds are always popular among the flock.
Does this mean taller fences and more powerful shepherds are good for the sheep? They certainly cut down on wolf attacks. But the fate of sheep who are shepherded is to be sheared and/or slaughtered and/or schtuped.
Which threat is more real to you will determine whether you want more freedom, or more sheparding.
I've known wolves, and shepherds. I prefer wolves, and distance.
You were right, we start from different ideas, but we often end up with the same conclusions.
I agree 200%.

I consider mainland china as the second worst place on the planet to live right now, based on my preferences and values (1st place always goes to all-in religious dictatorships such as Saudi).
This "social credit system" is the textbook explanation as to why.

7Wannabe5
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Location: Clinton River Watershed

Re: Social Credit System

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Also, given obvious reality of who is most likely to exhibit poor social behavior as evidenced in felony conviction statistics, wouldn’t it just be simpler to jus go ahead and transfer valued social goods to those with xx chromosomes instead of wasting energy and time on tedious tracking?

chenda
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Re: Social Credit System

Post by chenda »

@7wannabe5 - Yes, or possibly give the xy's a golfing handicap type of thing to compensate. Similarly the significance reduction in violence at gigs and football matches over the last 30 years has been strongly attributed to the large increase in women attending what were previously all male affairs. Whereas China's huge surplus of sexually frustrated young men who will never be able to marry is not going to help efforts to cut crime.

Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Social Credit System

Post by Riggerjack »

I prefer hunted wolves and strict vegetarian shepherds, though I'm sure if we met in real life we would get on just great and would bond over deep discussions about damp course membranes and concrete longevity ;)
It's hard to find wolves that aren't hunted, some more than others. Oddly, wolf hunting gets mixed reviews from wolves.

But a strictly vegetarian shepherd? I have heard of such, but every example seems to be just a smarter, more ruthless shepherd. I think the only truly vegetarian shepherd would have no flock, and be surrounded by wolves. If there's another way, I have seen no examples.
You were right, we start from different ideas, but we often end up with the same conclusions
Yeah, it seems I tend to agree in only contentious/contrarian ways. :oops:

Jean
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Location: Switzterland

Re: Social Credit System

Post by Jean »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:07 pm
Also, given obvious reality of who is most likely to exhibit poor social behavior as evidenced in felony conviction statistics, wouldn’t it just be simpler to jus go ahead and transfer valued social goods to those with xx chromosomes instead of wasting energy and time on tedious tracking?
Gender isn't the only characteristic peolpe are born with you could correlate with violent behavior, I doubt you'de find it fair to discriminate them at birth based on that.

7Wannabe5
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Location: Clinton River Watershed

Re: Social Credit System

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yes, it is true that multi-generational poverty, tendency towards alcoholism, and youth would also be factors in addition to xy that I would not want to discriminate against from birth (especially youth!)

I think it should be noted that I voted strongly against the plan EVEN though a jolly old woman who spends her time gardening, teaching, and soothing fractious old men would be most likely to benefit ;)

Jason
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Social Credit System

Post by Jason »

Tom Young wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:24 pm

While I won't be around to see it, my thinking is that this basic concept would be in the best interest of our country, going forward.
You do realize that the first etymological principle of a communist society is that when they introduce a "social" policy its underlying purpose is mass control through politically enforced conformity? In an age where data collection is the teleos, I for the life of me cannot understand why you think it is in the best interest of "our" country (irregardless of what specific country you are referring to) to centralize information. Assuming every piece of relevant and non-relevant information pertaining to our lives is accessible to outside parties, the base line minimum is to live in a society where there are still legally based tensions between personal/business/political interests. Quite frankly, I personally don't care if our political leaders are engaging in water sports with foreign prostitutes. But for the love of God, I want to at least live in a society where they have to publicly deny it despite overwhelming physical evidence.

jacob
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Re: Social Credit System

Post by jacob »

Ego wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:22 pm
The world needs plenty of solid honest citizens. But it also needs something more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwsuXHA7RA
A good example of this effect is how certain conversations are NOT taking place on online platforms that have credit systems, e.g. Likes, Hearts, Shares, Karma, Retweets, ... as people apply themselves to optimizing for the credit, for example, by mainly taking pictures of babies and puppies. Algorithms may further boost this effect (ever notice how you only see the same few people posting on such platforms).

Another form of control is controlling the format of interaction. For example, facebook famously allows you to have six (SIX!) different reactions none of which [by design] would unequivocally send the message to "stop posting [that]".

Of course, the real world also has these frameworks, and some kind of social credits already exist. Einstein had to start his career in a patent office because his social credit as measured by the standards and ways of the time was too low.

Tom Young
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Location: MidWest, Florida

Re: Social Credit System

Post by Tom Young »

This article goes into some depth about the current status of the China Social Credit System, particularly with respect to the problems and failures, but also noting that it is a system in change and transition.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-s ... -explained

I, and others here have discussed the core value of morality... which is also envisioned by the Chinese government.
Teaching, and being taught are the objectives ... learning is the is the result. In effect, the SCS of China is basically a leveling of the result. Different age groups, different financial circumstances, different locales with the varying mores... these are the targets of the Chinese authorities. Hopefully, any successful program would level the differences between socio-economic groups.

The Chinese Government, to date, indicates a degree of success, and while the process is far, far from the goals, it seems to be gaining internal support :) I guess that's a foregone conclusion.

In any case, not to be here in my lifetime, although the advances in AI, seem to make many of the perceived difficulties of consolidation and concentration of statistics and instant results... a thing of the past.

If we measure the future by the failures of the past, it may be worse than using history as a planning lesson.

A Social Credit System may not be the right way forward, but hope that we, and the government keep an open mind on the subject. So far, since the original concept in 2014... five years of experiments and testing have not yet been deemed a failure.

MOO... (My Opinion Only)

Jason
Posts: 2814
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Social Credit System

Post by Jason »

Tom Young wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:09 pm

I, and others here have discussed the core value of morality... which is also envisioned by the Chinese government.
Is this before or after you discuss religious toleration as envisioned by the Taliban.

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