Thoughts on the new Gillette Ad

[jacob]

@Campitor - Oh man, you can spend ages optimizing this. For some it's a hobby. I've been using the same Wilkinson Sword Classic for 15+ years. It's $7.79 on amazon. I bought it at a newspaper stand or somesuch in Poland. It's plastic or resin but so far nothing has broken. Only safety razor I've ever used. I have nothing to compare it to. It's a good and proven "starter"-razor which might also be a finisher.

I also have a straight edge. Compare to the safety razor, you can do more (finesse work), but you also have to pay a lot more attention---maybe needing a mirror, I know I do. Also, you need a strop to go along. And while you can bring your safety razor on a plane sans blade (buy at the destination), the straight razor has to be checked. Something to consider. Of course instead of buying blades, you can also just buy a disposable. Depends on the type of travel.

As for blades, similar rabbit hole. I bought 100 packs of some cheap crap blades on eBay for very little money in 2012. I've prob used 30% of those by now. They work alright. Better blades are better, but also way more expensive (but still very cheap relative to anything else save the straight-edge.)

DW has a long-handled Merkur which is kind of the go-to brand in the safety razor renaissance. After I talked her into it, she liked it so much that I saw her pink and pink-taxed multi-blade razor in the trash a few days later.

[Mister Imperceptible]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kt5PsyEMWk

[Gilberto de Piento]

Nobody likes the orange, disposable bic razor? They are about $0.50 each. They last forever for me, but then again, I don't shave often and don't have to cover much territory thanks to beards/stubble being acceptable. Barbasol shaving cream is also good - it's cheap and one can lasts a year.

The safety razor looks like I'd hurt myself, I've never tried one.

[prognastat]

Right now I can use the free disposable razors provided by my work gym so can't beat free(since I would be paying the membership anyway to attend the gym). But once I FIRE and that's not an option anymore I might try out a safety razor to see if it's worth it over the more expensive multi-blade options.

[Jason]

Makes me long for the days when a man could give himself a nice, close, guilt-free shave before the hookers and blow arrived.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Jason, do we have to trump up false charges and send you to Australia?

[Campitor]

I've searched through the forums to see if there was a thread dedicated to safety razors and their corresponding products and techniques but it seems to be scattered amongst different topics (how to save money or sharpen the blades - lol). I'll think I'll start a dedicated thread for it. Thank you Jacob, Brute, Neimand, Jean, and sisdly for your feedback.

[niemand]

Anybody else seen the new Gillette ad and feels like boycotting Procter & Gamble for eternity?

Back to the first post... From the reponses in this thread and the Safety razors & shaving techniques thread it looks like a) there’s diverse opinions here about the ad (we’re a diverse crowd and that’s a strength) and b) there’s a decent number of ERE folks who haven’t bought Gillette cartridges in a looong time - myself included. Imo it’s a ripoff and totally un-ERE.

As I made clear before, I like the message of the add. But if I didn’t, would I boycott all P&G products for eternity? This company is huge and during everyday shopping I would put myself at a serious disadvantage by excluding them from my options. I’m too pragmatic and P&G would have to be way more evil for that to happen.

Would I boycott PG, the dividend champion stock? No because dividends. In theory, if enough shareholders ganged up together they could influence the board regarding the direction they take the Gillette brand. Without ownership no such power. Also dividends.

[Jason]

Warren Buffet saw it coming.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/05/ ... le-co.aspx

[prognastat]

Given the price of Gillette cartridges and how quickly they wear out and clog I would agree they're quite un-ERE.

As a consumer you have control by choosing not to buy/buying a competitor, this is your only real way of influencing a company in the long run. In the short run bad press or protest might make a difference, but if it doesn't affect the company's business in it won't create a lasting change.

As an investor it's quite the opposite as the only way you have control is by owning the stock giving you a say. So if you disagree with a company your best bet would be to not buy their product and instead buy their stock. Of course this is limited in that for most individuals the amount of stock you are going to be able to buy is going to be negligible. Also of course how important is changing the company to you? I wouldn't over-invest in a company risking my financial future just to have a larger say in how they conduct their business.

[technohead]

Anybody else seen the new Gillette ad and feels like boycotting Procter & Gamble for eternity?

https://youtu.be/koPmuEyP3a0

I haven't seen it, don't want to. The War On Men is ramping up.

[Campitor]

I haven't seen it, don't want to. The War On Men is ramping up.

Men are tough - we'll be okay.

[ZAFCorrection]

I haven't seen it, don't want to. The War On Men is ramping up.

War on Men seems like a fairly overwrought description for an ad. As Campitor indicated, we should be alright.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Left wing identitariansm incites right wing identitarianism and vice versa.

Better to just ignore identitarianism altogether, maybe it will just go away. (Ok, absurdly optimistic, but maybe the ERE forums could be an oasis from this?)

Let’s not give Dr. Fisker another headache.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9260#p150786

[Campitor]

The following is submitted humbly and not meant to drive this conversation into a negative tone - if it does I hope Jacob locks this topic ASAP and accepts my "mea culpa".

I will not dispute that men have certain advantages that have not always been available to women. However men also have had certain disadvantages, some would say responsibilities, that have historically impacted men negatively. Men have led all the negative metrics in early deaths, incarceration, occupational deaths, homelessness, violent crime, etc. Please don't misconstrue what I am saying to mean that women haven't suffered historically or today. Suffering is suffering and suffering is relative. Men and women shouldn't be competing against each other in the victim olympics.

If males have privileges it's because of the evolutionary pressures in our ancient history. Men on average are taller than women, have denser bones and muscles, have higher levels of testosterone which impacts mood, aggression, competition, and sexual drive. If we evolved to be this way it was due to the biological cost of having an increased brain size, lengthy gestation period, and an extended trek towards adolescence. Evolution forced human biology to diverge and specialize to optimize the tradeoffs between the sexes in order to maximize the survival of infants and hence the species.

To whine presently about male privilege, or female advantages, makes as much sense as whining about women having vaginas or men having penises. We are shaped by the biology nature has given us. At best we can bend our will and personal growth in a positive direction knowing that we will be affected subconsciously by our biology. Biology isn't and shouldn't be an excuse for bad behavior. And the complaints heard today about men such as "mansplaining", interrupting women, overrepresentation in positions of power, etc, are things that impact other men as well. Men will talk over each other, "mansplain" for other men, backstab each other for powerful positions, etc.

And men get sexually harassed too but it's not really talked about; when it happens men are supposed to laugh it off or ignore it. I've had women, without my consent or solicitation, grab my penis in jest, slap me in the ass, pinch my muscles, stroke my hair, proposition me for an affair, sit in my lap, hug me (total stranger), and ask about my penis size (this happened at work).

So do I believe most women to be sexual deviants or immoral? No I do not. I realize that the aforementioned harassment isn't common. Most women are respectful and honorable just like most men are respectful and honorable. Male privilege is a myth and a reality - it exists within the realistic boundaries dictated by biology but it's a myth in that men are not gods sitting atop Mount Olympus raining down thunderbolts on women.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Men and women shouldn't be competing against each other in the victim olympics.

+1,000

[niemand]

Sorry for any offence caused by me; I find the term War on Men slightly offensive. Let’s keep it more nuanced next time in the spirit of the house rules.

[Mister Imperceptible]

I had a personal experience when the #metoo movement started and someone made a false accusation against me probably because they felt it was open season on white guys. I was very angry at the time and we have tendencies as human beings to extrapolate personal grievances into some all-encompassing “war on something.” I do not know why the woman wanted to make the false accusation....it is very possible that someone had done something harmful to her and she had no recourse to get back on that person, so she was just lashing out. She was and is going thru a divorce. So if her husband were abusive/unfaithful or something else, she just may have wanted to lash out against any man she could.

It is hard to break cycles of violence, whether physical or psychological.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_violence

[fiby41]

Gender is a bodily identification. The spirit soul is beyond the dualities (genderless.)
I use a hair trimmer on facial hair.

[jacob]

Left wing identitariansm incites right wing identitarianism and vice versa.

Better to just ignore identitarianism altogether, maybe it will just go away. (Ok, absurdly optimistic, but maybe the ERE forums could be an oasis from this?)

So much this!! Thank you!

I understand the human impulse towards identitarianism/tribalism and belonging to a group and how easy it is to understand the world in terms of groups and whether one is a member. This arrangement even comes with pre-installed grievances and fighting words that we know are guaranteed to piss off the other group and temporarily make ourselves feel better. If you get really into it, you can learn what those grievances are and develop a complete framework to understand the world solely based on hating "the other" justifying yourself that you're defending yours and defining yourself by who you're against. It is a framework that lacks nuance and looks rather dumb to anyone who hasn't adopted it. It's also a framework one can waste a lifetime on going down the rabbit hole.

This is a mode of behavior that humans learn growing up when they go through the school yard environment or similar in the streets. It's the chicken equivalent of establishing pecking order. While most of us grow out of it, learning better and more mature ways to interact with other humans, we don't forget what it was. We don't forget how to piss other people off or hit them exactly right. We just choose not to do it, because there's a better way. Imagine what the world would look like if it was run with the social skill-level of 17 year olds. Yeah, Lord of the Flies. If you can't imagine it, just go and look at some of the darker or even not so dark corners of the internet. That's the end result of relaxing the rules.

Social media, for some reason---perhaps because the screen-distance depersonalizes the situation---seems particularly good at bringing the shadow side back. Certain topics have the same effect. I understand how that shadow never goes away and that sometimes when emotionality is high and overrules the frontal lobes, it's easy to slip into stupid-mode and fire off shots. I get that. However, I also understand that everybody knows exactly what they're doing when they're shooting (I can tell which words are fighting words and so can everybody else) and what the desired effect is on the receiver/audience when they're doing it; so whenever someone does it repeatedly, they either need to mature the fuck up or find another place where pissing contests are appreciated.

I mean, honestly, I think most of my, at this point, extensive elaborations on the house rules boils down to the following two items.

1. Don't use the quote function as a reply button
2. Don't start, sustain, or engage in pissing contests!

IOW, don't fire off one-liners that trigger some kind of binary identity framework and send people temporarily into stupid-mode. Do it continually and the stupid-mode becomes permanent and that will be the end of the camaraderie of this forum. Knowing how effective that weapon is also means knowing that we're better off not using it. Make no mistake. It's the behavior that is censored, not the topic. Just like nuclear weapons are banned, but wars aren't.