Thoughts on the new Gillette Ad

[thegreatvoid]

Anybody else seen the new Gillette ad and feels like boycotting Procter & Gamble for eternity?

https://youtu.be/koPmuEyP3a0

[Jean]

I've seen it and watched tons of videos about it because any excuse is good to not learn biochemistry.
I don't buy any of thier product now, so I won't change anything in my buying habit. Of course this ad is racist and sexist. I don't like the double standard. But in the end, what I dislike is when people complain about what other people do if it doesn't really affect them, so I won't do it myself, even if I'm the one targeted negatively. In the end, it's just an ad. I'm only very remotely economicaly connected to them so it doesn't matter.
To me it's a dying world insulting me. I don't care, because it's dying.
Anger is natural, but how i understood jacob's policy, he doesn't tolerate this forum to be a place to let blow your anger. I understand this. You never had a roomate who couldn't refrain from shouting angrily when losing at call of duty? Even if not against you, those manifestation of anger are making people uncomfortable. I see jacon more like someone opening his living room to us (like he repeatedly explained), than a bartender (because you can express your anger in a bar). Hope this framing will help you not getting banned again.

edit: but I've been thinking for a while about how we could create a space, where we could have more relaxed discussion but with the same set of people than those who gatter here.

[Seppia]

It’s a poorly executed ad, they tried to replicate what Nike (successfully) did with Kaepernick and it backfired spectacularly.

I have to say it has been funny to see so many manly masculine and very tough men get triggered by a razor blade ad like any stereotypical “19 year old liberal art snowflake”

[niemand]

If men criticise clearly unacceptable but unfortunately widespread fellow-male behaviour it should be seen as a good sign for everyone, especially men.
I don’t care if it happens through an ad or casually when a buddy doesn’t treat his gf right, we as men need to start admitting that there are problems and we need to start doing something about them.

In much of the West, men commit ~90% of violent crime (often against women), seek less professional help for (mental) problems, and are several times more likely to use drugs or to commit suicide.

To a degree we are socialised into these toxic behaviours.
“Boys don’t cry”, don’t “cry like a girl” and aren’t ”weak like a girl.” What does this teach us? Males are superior to females. Also, emotions are a weakness. “You punch like a girl” - Females are inferior. Also, aggression and violence are appropriate means to solve interpersonal conflict. “Boys will be boys” - all the aforementioned is ok, cause hey we are boys and we don’t want to break out of well established patterns.

Seriously, we can do better than that, can’t we?

[Stahlmann]

I post here and then I'll check on my profile if it wasnt evaporated or I ll have post in locked topic (somekind badge here ).

[Dream of Freedom]

In much of the West, men commit ~90% of violent crime (often against women), seek less professional help for (mental) problems, and are several times more likely to use drugs or to commit suicide.

Can you imagine an ad like this for other statistically more violent groups? What if they showed black stereotypes for instance? Show kids without a father. People doing drugs. Gangs. Living on welfare. Poor grades. "We can do better." There would be an uproar and rightfully so.

Why can't they show men being loving husbands and fathers, men building great things, and men working for a better world? Wouldn't that be inspiring? Procter and Gamble can do better.

[IlliniDave]

They failed to convince me to buy their products or view their company favorably. But I'm 25+ years beyond any demographic they are interested in.

[niemand]

Can you imagine an ad like this for other statistically more violent groups? What if they showed black stereotypes for instance

You’re making a straw man argument. The Gillette ad isn’t about race stereotypes, the ad is by a male brand addressing questionable male behaviour.

If interested, read up about ingroup and outgroup. According to social psychology people are influenced differently by their ingroup vs. the outgroup.

So let’s entertain your argument: if an [ingroup] representative said to [the ingroup] they see a problem with [the ingroup] and there needs to be dialogue about it, what reaction would this cause?
Surely a different reaction an [outgroup] representative would get if he told [the ingroup] the same thing?

Beyoncé’s “If I was a boy” didn’t cause a male outcry, because Queen B is gender outgroup to us gender-normal men. But Gillette is gender ingroup, hence the reaction is what it is.

And yes, I believe we (male and female) can do better. The other day my sister in law told her 4 year old son “you don’t hit girls” when he hit my DD. Why not teach him “you don’t hit anyone period”?

[Dream of Freedom]

Gillette is not male (ingroup) it is a legal entity (trademark) owned by another legal entity Procter and Gamble and owned by millions of people including me. It itself has no gender. The ad was directed by a feminist woman named Kim Gehrig.

The Gillette ad isn’t about race stereotypes

It is about gender stereotypes.

[Riggerjack]

I thought it was brilliant. I'm tempted to buy stock.

Not because of the message, I don't have a problem with the message, but as an ad, they nailed it.

If we look at advertising rates for tv, the demographic manufacturers pay for is the teen and young adult category. Capturing customers young is the name of the game. Many people decide on brands and products at that age, and never change. This is the time when people ask their friends for recommendations, so market share is a critical metric. All of this leads to young customers being far more valuable to the bottom line than older customers.

But these damned millennials don't respond appropriately to ads. They don't just buy the razor with the right jingle. But what they do respond to, is a sense of righteousness. Make young men feel righteous and justified, and you have them by the balls.

This ad campaign was based on provoking a reaction from older customers, so older customers will sell razors for them, to young men. Nothing is more appealing to a young man than to be able to set himself apart from older men. So middle aged men griping about the implications of a message that on its surface agrees with the ethics of the younger men is like the advertising holy Grail.

And if this ad made you feel anything, positive or not, that wasn't an accident. And the more one reacts, the better it works, so expect more of this.

[Jean]

I see mostly aged men liking the ad and young men feeling insulted by it.

[prognastat]

They decide rather than making an aspirational add to motivate people they would make a finger wagging ad because that always works(of course assuming that they are actually interested in causing a change rather than cynical virtue signalling for PR reasons). Also this would have been the other way around for any other group than men.

As for boycotting I doubt anything will happen for a few reasons:
1) Most people won't know P&G owns Gillette and will at best temporarily boycott Gillette having only a minor effect on the parent company while still buying their other products.
2) Even if people do know P&G owns Gillette they would have to take even more time to check which other brands P&G owns.
3) Since P&G makes so many products even those that do know P&G own those they probably won't boycott every product.

As for myself due to frugal behaviours I already don't buy any P&G products myself so can't really boycott what you don't buy.

[George the original one]

It’s a poorly executed ad, they tried to replicate what Nike (successfully) did with Kaepernick and it backfired spectacularly.

I have to say it has been funny to see so many manly masculine and very tough men get triggered by a razor blade ad like any stereotypical “19 year old liberal art snowflake”

And if this ad made you feel anything, positive or not, that wasn't an accident. And the more one reacts, the better it works, so expect more of this.

I wouldn't have even seen the ad if I didn't click on thegreatvoid's Youtube link. My own feelings are reflected by my Seppia and Riggerjack quotes. Amazes me that anyone is offended by what amounts to a sermon preaching good behavior.

[7Wannabe5]

Did any man on this forum purchase his own first razor? Seems likely to me that this ad is mostly aimed at middle class, middle aged moms just like every other P and G ad. I know men in their 60s who still buy whatever flavor of dish soap their mother bought in 1959. I can easily imagine my own DS30 INTP (zero interest in shopping from birth) doing that.

[C40]

For a while we had Greenwashing. Now this is, what would this be called? Virtue signal-washing? Surely there's a more catchy name. I'm sure it's much older than Greenwashing.

None of this has anything to do with razors or shaving. But when you're making products in a field that was solved technologically solved over a hundred years ago with the invention of the double edged safety razor (by, I think, a guy named Gillette!) - and no further innovations have improved on the design - you've got to sell your new and much more profitable products by means other than product function or product form.

I do also agree that it is a little odd to have an ad like this, as @DreamOfFreedom pointed out. But the product advertised is targeted to be used by men, so it makes some sense. And I don't think it's a big deal. I don't mind the ad. Of course it could have been done better, but at least it is sharing good examples of behavior and a call to action. I'm fed up with so much complaining happening these days. I'd rather the entire ad was more like the 2nd half, just showing good behaviors. (Although, I think it's very limiting, when showing 'good' behaviors, for it to be just people accosting misbehavers. There are other and better ways to do right)

To really do this virtue-washing ad campaign right, Gillette should create or partner with some kind of organization or movement framing this stuff in a more positive light for men and along with other important thing for improving the lives and health of men (including stuff like mental health, good communication in relationships, etc. - basically like the stuff those "Men's groups" are doing these days. I don't mean the angsty teenager "Men's rights" / "red pill" crap, I mean the "Men's groups" where they have meetings to sit around to talk about their feelings, and go on those cheesy camping trips that cost 5-20x what a camping trip actually costs... - which really starts to highlight that it's odd and a problem that those things exist these days - basically filling a gap that is supposed to be fulfilled with friends and family)

[Gilberto de Piento]

I also liked the second half better, but maybe the first half was considered necessary to try to introduce the issue to unfamiliar audiences or to try to explain to audiences why this particular company was getting involved. The ad didn't bother me and I thought the message was a good one, though modern times are a little weird with companies trying to figure out how to sell their products to audiences that don't respond to traditional direct advertising messages.

[Tyler9000]

It's easy to lecture but much more difficult to inspire. If you're going to choose masculinity as a marketing theme, I think the tone of this ad is way better and expresses the good in men to admire and protect rather than a cheap negative stereotype to virtue signal against.

https://youtu.be/x_HL0wiK4Zc

[niemand]

Gillette is not male (ingroup) ...

Just about any marketeer would disagree with this statement. There’s tons of literature about brand gender, attributes and identity out there.
Here is an article about Porsche that’s quite related. It’s about the fight men put up against the “contamination” of a classic male brand through the introduction of a product line with perceived female attributes (SUV range).

As Riggerjack said, brands need to calibrate their message to their target audience in order to stay relevant. Sometimes these (re-)callibrations can be radical and create friction. Imo Gillette did it very well.

[IlliniDave]

It's easy to lecture but much more difficult to inspire. If you're going to choose masculinity as a marketing theme, I think the tone of this ad is way better and expresses the good in men to admire and protect rather than a cheap negative stereotype to virtue signal against.

https://youtu.be/x_HL0wiK4Zc

Cheap negative stereotypes are what make the world go round these days it seems.

[C40]

edit: but I've been thinking for a while about how we could create a space, where we could have more relaxed discussion but with the same set of people than those who gatter here.

It used to be a sort of regular thing (like a couple times a month) to set up a time for people from the forum to gather on an IRC chat channel (that was open all the time but usually without much going on). Because that realm was much more private than forum posts, and and posts there went away after a while, the atmosphere was much more free and sort of locker room-ish. That was quite nice because it was a time when some of the regular posters here who are more on the conservative side opened up more. But it wasn't like what you were talking about. It wasn't people complaining. Just them speaking more frankly and openly. Sex came up a lot more than it normally does on the forum and people who don't normally talk about it on the forum did there. The times I was there it always went very well and still maintained the healthy conversation patterns that are pretty common on this forum.

I think some of the guys getting heat for complaining lately (from me at times) would benefit from some learning on the subject of when it's cool to vent and complain. There are times and places when different things go over well. It's important to know when/where/who.

There are some older guys on this forum who have thorough and wonderful rants. (ffj, Sclass, maybe Riggerjack? Sometimes Tyler). But these guys don't just dump their rants out all over the place. They share them when it's appropriate - and - importantly - when reading it will benefit other members of the forum.