The pet peeves thread (how fun) seemed like it was about to go off the rails talking about smoking, so I figured we might be able to use a separate thread for it.
Reminded me of how I've written a few times over the years about, and even romanticized, the cigar. I've rolled my own from tobacco my friend grew in Vermont. I'm planning on growing my own tobacco in the near future to avoid the costs with buying the manufactured ones and to have more control over the quality.
I don't smoke all winter. But I love a cigar on a summer afternoon. I recognize the health risk is there, though I think it's pretty minimal for someone who smokes 3 to 4 cigars a month 5 months out of the year. But the enjoyment I get out of it is worth it. Whenever people ask me how I could do something I KNOW is bad for me, I just ask them how they could possibly eat red meat knowing how bad it is for you (The vegetarians stump me though).
Some people go nuts about 2nd hand smoke I think though. Now sure, people shouldn't smoke around others in enclosed spaces, in doorways, or in crowded areas. But if I'm smoking on a park bench, off by myself and you have to walk by, I think you'll be ok. What I don't get is how these people find a little tobacco leaf so offensive, yet they suck down exhaust fumes from diesel and petrol cars all day long walking beside a busy city street and never seem to be bothered by it. Or they'll sit next to a campfire for hours and enjoy the aroma not even noticing the billows of smoke they're breathing in throughout the night. Just seems a little inconsistent.
Tobacco
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Wolfpaws58
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:41 am
I smoke. I have all of my adult life. The government backed by the now majority have been coming after me for over a decade in the form of taxation and bans. I understand completely now what my History Techer meant wen he was bantering about despotism of the majority. I try to live and let live. Every time a car drives by my corner lot home and throws their trash in my yard I smile amd pick it up knowing I am a better person. Every time a car passes my house with the stereo pumping out enough bass to send ripples through a glass of water from a quarter mile away I smile knwoing I was once young. Every time a person cuts me off in traffic or nearly tears off my back bumper switching lanes while tailgating I smile and enjoy the comfort of my truck or car and drive on doing the speed limit knowing I am less likely than they are to get a ticket or die in a car crash. I also know I'm saving gas. One has to be careful with obsessing over what's wrong with everyone else. It can easily rob you of the joys of life.
On the financial side:
I recently purchased a rolling machine and supplies to make my own filter cigarettes. Initial estimates are that I'm going to be saving over $100 a week. This is money that I can re-direct towards my goal of early retirement. Smoking is only expensive because of the taxation and the taxation is so high only because the majority no longer smokes and therefore they don't care if the minority is abused, especially if it reduces their own tax burden and obligations. I understand all the arguements against smoking and how the majority feel about it. The fact of the matter is I am a polite smoker when I am outside my own home. I don't smoke near militant non-smoking people and I don't throw my butts all over the place. From the stand point of economics I am going to save thousands until the tax crazy government finds a way to tax my newly discovered alternative to buying pre-rolled tobacco. When they do maybe that will be the final straw that will force me to quit something that I personally enjoy. I understand that my admission of enjoying smoking will offend some people. I think that people need to begin to understand is that no matter what we do as individuals there is the potential that it's going to offend someone somewhere.
The bottom line:
If you enjoy smoking and you havn't already. Look into the possibility of rolling your own tobacco to potentially save thousands of dollars a year while enjoying cigarettes without chemicals to prevent them from burning which can't be good for you. After just one week of smoking my own I thought I'd treat myself to my old brand and I found that I no longer like the taste. Rolling my own for me has proven not only a savings but I also prefer the cigarettes I roll and it's a bit of a zen like experience running off a carton.
Enjoy!
On the financial side:
I recently purchased a rolling machine and supplies to make my own filter cigarettes. Initial estimates are that I'm going to be saving over $100 a week. This is money that I can re-direct towards my goal of early retirement. Smoking is only expensive because of the taxation and the taxation is so high only because the majority no longer smokes and therefore they don't care if the minority is abused, especially if it reduces their own tax burden and obligations. I understand all the arguements against smoking and how the majority feel about it. The fact of the matter is I am a polite smoker when I am outside my own home. I don't smoke near militant non-smoking people and I don't throw my butts all over the place. From the stand point of economics I am going to save thousands until the tax crazy government finds a way to tax my newly discovered alternative to buying pre-rolled tobacco. When they do maybe that will be the final straw that will force me to quit something that I personally enjoy. I understand that my admission of enjoying smoking will offend some people. I think that people need to begin to understand is that no matter what we do as individuals there is the potential that it's going to offend someone somewhere.
The bottom line:
If you enjoy smoking and you havn't already. Look into the possibility of rolling your own tobacco to potentially save thousands of dollars a year while enjoying cigarettes without chemicals to prevent them from burning which can't be good for you. After just one week of smoking my own I thought I'd treat myself to my old brand and I found that I no longer like the taste. Rolling my own for me has proven not only a savings but I also prefer the cigarettes I roll and it's a bit of a zen like experience running off a carton.
Enjoy!
Smoking has gotten hammered and for good reason in my view. It had two big negatives. One, it was obviously unhealthy. Not to mention that the companies in that industry are far from reputable. The second one being that for a long time you could smoke anywhere and a ton of people did. I have no idea how anyone used to fly in those smoked filled planes and so many restaurants were just smoke factories. Talk about not respecting anyone else.
In my mind that is why the backlash has been so strong.
@MikeBOS
I agree. Definitely NO smoke inside, unless it's a cigar bar (those ventaliation systems are sweet). Go ahead and smoke outside. Though, I will still give the 15 person smoking gaggle just outside the door the evil eye, but more for blocking the door than smoking.
@Wolfpaws58
You do realize that most cities have ordances against every non-smoking example you use, just like many have against smoking? Some get enforced more than others depending on where you are at...including smoking.
In my mind that is why the backlash has been so strong.
@MikeBOS
I agree. Definitely NO smoke inside, unless it's a cigar bar (those ventaliation systems are sweet). Go ahead and smoke outside. Though, I will still give the 15 person smoking gaggle just outside the door the evil eye, but more for blocking the door than smoking.
@Wolfpaws58
You do realize that most cities have ordances against every non-smoking example you use, just like many have against smoking? Some get enforced more than others depending on where you are at...including smoking.
@Mike and Wolfpaws
I appreciate the offshoot of the Pet Peeves thread specializing in smoking. Your both in concert with my smoking post near the end of my thread.
It is really all about consideration isn't it? Whether it's the boom box car stereo or the smoke, it is coped with on the basis of one of society melting in with another of society. Yes there are people of these natures:
(a) I am going to do what I want no matter who gets zapped.
(b) I am going to do what I want, but I will do it in a manner that considers others.
Smoking of any kind is very expensive these days, and it appears it is only going to increase in cost. If one enjoys the smoking (I certainly used to enjoy it) then the cost factors must be taken into consideration.
My bottom line is simply that smoking does not have to be the vile object of disparity that it has become. Let the smoker do their thing, let the non smoker be smoke free. The key is that the smoker retract into a private manner of doing their thing.
"Here's lookin' at ya kid"!!!
I appreciate the offshoot of the Pet Peeves thread specializing in smoking. Your both in concert with my smoking post near the end of my thread.
It is really all about consideration isn't it? Whether it's the boom box car stereo or the smoke, it is coped with on the basis of one of society melting in with another of society. Yes there are people of these natures:
(a) I am going to do what I want no matter who gets zapped.
(b) I am going to do what I want, but I will do it in a manner that considers others.
Smoking of any kind is very expensive these days, and it appears it is only going to increase in cost. If one enjoys the smoking (I certainly used to enjoy it) then the cost factors must be taken into consideration.
My bottom line is simply that smoking does not have to be the vile object of disparity that it has become. Let the smoker do their thing, let the non smoker be smoke free. The key is that the smoker retract into a private manner of doing their thing.
"Here's lookin' at ya kid"!!!
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Wolfpaws58
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:41 am
The talk of taxing sugar and foods that the government deems unhealthy is already under way. Bans and taxation are coming to a habit near you. Eventually something you enjoy will be impacted, count on it. I guess in the end we're all going to be fine living by the standards that the government deems appropriate. Life back in the 50's and 60's sure was dangerous. Thank God for the stuffed suits in DC that are looking out for us all. They can't balance a checkbook to save their lives but they sure seem to know how we should all spend our days on the planet. I am so ready to retire and get out of this mess that has been created by parties known and unknown. Seat belt laws were lobbied by Auto Insurance Companies, smoking bans were lobbied by Health Insurance providers. If we're all willing to let the profit picture of the insurance companies dictate how we live our lives then so be it. It's beyond my control and yours. I respect everyone and the opinions of everyone and I think people should be free to live the way they want to as long as they are willing to live with the outcome and not make it my problem. I in turn will do the same.
Enjoy every minute and every breath because you never know when it's going to be your last!
Enjoy every minute and every breath because you never know when it's going to be your last!
One thing I find strange or odd is the fact big money tobacco is run by the Elite (Reynolds). Since the Elite also run the US Government, it seems odd that all the talk about cessation of smoking, health risk, etc, by the government would be tolerated. Campaigns against smoking seems to be counterproductive to the money making power of the Elite. Of course there may well be some hidden methodology to all of it.
@Wolfpaws: Making your own cigarettes will save you $100 a week?
Uh... if that's true I'd be worried about the length of your retirement.
From Movie King Pin:
Ishmael: You should try to quit. They say its bad for your heart, your lungs. It quickens the aging process.
Roy: Oh Really?... And who's done more research than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say its harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke.
Ishmael: [ponders, then appears convinced] Hmmm.
Uh... if that's true I'd be worried about the length of your retirement.
From Movie King Pin:
Ishmael: You should try to quit. They say its bad for your heart, your lungs. It quickens the aging process.
Roy: Oh Really?... And who's done more research than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say its harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke.
Ishmael: [ponders, then appears convinced] Hmmm.
The change in smoking environment in the last 20 years has been remarkable. Whenever I go to Europe to countries where this transition has not yet happened, I am blown away by the contrast. And this change has happened quickly even though there was powerful industry fighting to keep smoking "cool".
I wonder if similar change might happen to other vise that harm humans and environment even more than smoking. I am thinking traffic pollution and factory farming...
I wonder if similar change might happen to other vise that harm humans and environment even more than smoking. I am thinking traffic pollution and factory farming...
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Wolfpaws58
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:41 am
I remember what it was like before they made smoking indoors against the law. People smoked in restaurants and even in classrooms at the high school. It was awful. I can remember feeling like I had to hold my breath all the time. I'm so glad that there's clean air indoors now. Sadly, sometimes I have to go inside now to have clean air because of the smokers who stand too close to the outdoor seating at restaurants.
I used to work with the mentally ill. People with schizophrenia smoke quite a bit. I was responsible for helping them clean their homes. Their couches had black arm-rests, black and sticky from the nicotine from their hands. The aluminum along the windows actually had sticky drops of nicotine running down like tears. The walls, lamps and curtains were stained yellow. Cleaning this was absolutely disgusting.
I'm sorry that smokers are hooked but I think it is right that smoking should be discouraged. There is nothing good about it. I don't care if you want to smoke a cigar once in a while, but the habit of smoking habitually is just disgusting. If I was a landlord I would forbid it in my apartment building to protect my investment that's for sure.
I used to work with the mentally ill. People with schizophrenia smoke quite a bit. I was responsible for helping them clean their homes. Their couches had black arm-rests, black and sticky from the nicotine from their hands. The aluminum along the windows actually had sticky drops of nicotine running down like tears. The walls, lamps and curtains were stained yellow. Cleaning this was absolutely disgusting.
I'm sorry that smokers are hooked but I think it is right that smoking should be discouraged. There is nothing good about it. I don't care if you want to smoke a cigar once in a while, but the habit of smoking habitually is just disgusting. If I was a landlord I would forbid it in my apartment building to protect my investment that's for sure.
I've got no problem with someone having a beef with rude smokers, but the prevailing attitude is that smokers are, by definition, rude because decent people don't smoke.
As an exercise, I would like everyone concerned about the second hand effects of smoking to imagine that we were talking about promiscous sex instead of smoking. It spreads disease and sickness! It causes cancer! It damages the environment (rugrats)! It ruins peoples' lives!
Now, there are ways to limit your exposure to secondhand intercourse but the whole society suffers because these obviously poor, uneducated, moral delinquents can't control their urges. And don't get me started on the fatties...
On a less sarcastic note, what happens when they raise taxes on cigarettes so high that most smokers can't afford to buy smokes? They don't quit. They just buy on the black market.
As an exercise, I would like everyone concerned about the second hand effects of smoking to imagine that we were talking about promiscous sex instead of smoking. It spreads disease and sickness! It causes cancer! It damages the environment (rugrats)! It ruins peoples' lives!
Now, there are ways to limit your exposure to secondhand intercourse but the whole society suffers because these obviously poor, uneducated, moral delinquents can't control their urges. And don't get me started on the fatties...
On a less sarcastic note, what happens when they raise taxes on cigarettes so high that most smokers can't afford to buy smokes? They don't quit. They just buy on the black market.
I imagined the promiscous sex exercise. I agree irresponsible promiscous sex and obesity are societal burdens too. Doesn't change my mind about smokers.
They know that after a certain point no amount of taxes will make them quit. The tax increases after that point are done because they are easy to get support for and smoking definitly puts a burden on the healthcare system. Not that those funds are always used for the healthcare system...that's a whole new subject.
They know that after a certain point no amount of taxes will make them quit. The tax increases after that point are done because they are easy to get support for and smoking definitly puts a burden on the healthcare system. Not that those funds are always used for the healthcare system...that's a whole new subject.
I can understand the irony of comparing the wilful act of fumigating ourselves with SPM/diesel/petrol fumes every day and objecting to tobacco smoke. But still the comparison is not apt. Let me explain.
For a fact we know of many of the harmful effects of nicotine/tobacco. (Search casually on the Net - you'll get good cited references too....)
And as Chad rightly points it, NICOTINE: HARDER TO KICK ... THAN HEROIN.
Next, I dug up this graphic (2002-2004 data) from here:
In the article:
It is estimated that at least 55% of the sex differential in total mortality can be attributed to behavioral differences in the use of tobacco, alcohol, guns and cars. Males probably also face a higher rate of occupational deaths due to accidents, homicides and toxicities. Nonetheless, homicide is the leading occupational cause of death for women.
Tobacco use and diet/exercise are the behavioral influences that most strongly contribute to (or delay) death -- because cardiovascular disease & cancer are the leading causes of death.
Particulate air pollution is held responsible for 3% of cardiopulmonary disease cases and 5% of cancer of trachea, bronchus & lungs [JOURNAL OF TOXICOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH,Part A; Cohen,AJ; 68(13-14):1301-1307 (2005)]. Every microgram per cubic meter of particulate air pollution is estimated to increase death rate between 0.6% and 1.6%. At 18 micrograms per cubic meter, Los Angeles has the highest particulate pollution of any major city in the United States. Athens & Mexico City have nearly twice the particulate air pollution as Los Angeles, Mumbai (Bombay) has up to three times as much and Beijing has more than four times as much.
I don't think any amount of analogies, or upholding the freedom of this or that, or engaging in eclectic "POMO" (Yahoo: "NOMO POMO" + blog for more) discussions is going to take away the two hard facts Chad points out about smoking/tobacco:
Smoking has gotten hammered and for good reason in my view. It had two big negatives. One, it was obviously unhealthy. Not to mention that the companies in that industry are far from reputable. [......] Secondly, talk about not respecting anyone else.
For a fact we know of many of the harmful effects of nicotine/tobacco. (Search casually on the Net - you'll get good cited references too....)
And as Chad rightly points it, NICOTINE: HARDER TO KICK ... THAN HEROIN.
Next, I dug up this graphic (2002-2004 data) from here:
In the article:
It is estimated that at least 55% of the sex differential in total mortality can be attributed to behavioral differences in the use of tobacco, alcohol, guns and cars. Males probably also face a higher rate of occupational deaths due to accidents, homicides and toxicities. Nonetheless, homicide is the leading occupational cause of death for women.
Tobacco use and diet/exercise are the behavioral influences that most strongly contribute to (or delay) death -- because cardiovascular disease & cancer are the leading causes of death.
Particulate air pollution is held responsible for 3% of cardiopulmonary disease cases and 5% of cancer of trachea, bronchus & lungs [JOURNAL OF TOXICOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH,Part A; Cohen,AJ; 68(13-14):1301-1307 (2005)]. Every microgram per cubic meter of particulate air pollution is estimated to increase death rate between 0.6% and 1.6%. At 18 micrograms per cubic meter, Los Angeles has the highest particulate pollution of any major city in the United States. Athens & Mexico City have nearly twice the particulate air pollution as Los Angeles, Mumbai (Bombay) has up to three times as much and Beijing has more than four times as much.
I don't think any amount of analogies, or upholding the freedom of this or that, or engaging in eclectic "POMO" (Yahoo: "NOMO POMO" + blog for more) discussions is going to take away the two hard facts Chad points out about smoking/tobacco:
Smoking has gotten hammered and for good reason in my view. It had two big negatives. One, it was obviously unhealthy. Not to mention that the companies in that industry are far from reputable. [......] Secondly, talk about not respecting anyone else.
@Surio: excellent... I can't believe that firearms are more deadly than automobiles. Seems like fatal car accidents are a weekly event where I live and while murders are very, very infrequent. It must include suicides as well, but even then it's hard to believe.
... They should add terrorism to that list. Even though it appears to be SOME people's #1 fear (thanks TV!) I doubt it would compose even a single pixel!
... They should add terrorism to that list. Even though it appears to be SOME people's #1 fear (thanks TV!) I doubt it would compose even a single pixel!
As far as the personal health effects go...
I guess I just don't accept the premise that tobacco can't be used in moderation in a way that has minimal health effects. Sure, most people clearly get hooked, and lots who smoke excessively for 30+ years die of it. But I've been smoking for 10 years. And every winter I quit for a solid 4 or 5 months, don't miss it at all, and then I take it up again in the summer, smoking usually once per week.
To me, someone who smokes daily or stands out in the cold in order to suck down a cigarette is like a 400lb+ guy who wolfs down 10 pork chops a day. - Clearly unhealthy. But no one in their right mind would point at the 400 pound guy and say, "That's why you should never eat pork chops!" - Yet that's exactly what happens with tobacco.
Just because some people can't control their appetite doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to indulge mine from time to time.
I guess I just don't accept the premise that tobacco can't be used in moderation in a way that has minimal health effects. Sure, most people clearly get hooked, and lots who smoke excessively for 30+ years die of it. But I've been smoking for 10 years. And every winter I quit for a solid 4 or 5 months, don't miss it at all, and then I take it up again in the summer, smoking usually once per week.
To me, someone who smokes daily or stands out in the cold in order to suck down a cigarette is like a 400lb+ guy who wolfs down 10 pork chops a day. - Clearly unhealthy. But no one in their right mind would point at the 400 pound guy and say, "That's why you should never eat pork chops!" - Yet that's exactly what happens with tobacco.
Just because some people can't control their appetite doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to indulge mine from time to time.
Definitely... Prohibitionists are always insisting that something is so dangerously powerful no one can overcome it. Ridiculous.
I also find it amusing how poor diet is clearly causing more problems in 2011, yet it is utterly politically incorrect to point this obvious fact out.
Being dangerously overweight and eating a horribly destructive diet is completely socially acceptable. Often celebrated and positively reinforced in moronic media.
Getting out of your head on any number of legal pharmaceuticals and you're a hero, for confronting your depression.
Meanwhile, smokers are monsters. Responsible, casual drinkers are murdering scores and scores on the dangerous motorways (complete statistical lie).
I also find it amusing how poor diet is clearly causing more problems in 2011, yet it is utterly politically incorrect to point this obvious fact out.
Being dangerously overweight and eating a horribly destructive diet is completely socially acceptable. Often celebrated and positively reinforced in moronic media.
Getting out of your head on any number of legal pharmaceuticals and you're a hero, for confronting your depression.
Meanwhile, smokers are monsters. Responsible, casual drinkers are murdering scores and scores on the dangerous motorways (complete statistical lie).
@JohnnyH,
Thanks. You're welcome. I do understand this is a very polarising topic, but some discussions are definitely NOMO POMO category for me. Based on my US sojourn though, I would say those stats looked believable. And like you did, sometimes I was witnessing one major road accident (mangled metal, glass all over, lanes diverted.....) pretty much every evening while travelling back home from work.
>> They should add terrorism to that list.
>> Even though it appears to be SOME people's #1 fear (thanks TV!)
Ha Ha... LOL!
@mikeBOS,
Overeating is also a recognised disorder/addiction in the same bracket as nicotine, caffeine etc... And the topic of food is just as polarising as smoking is. The same response that a smoker gives, i.e.: "I am going to do what I want to....." when you tell them they ought to cut it down.
The fact thet smoking is not (yet?) an addiction to you makes you a rarity. Consider yourself a very very lucky/blessed to not succumb to that slippery slope.
I don't want to look like some prim and prudish Auntie throwing scaredy remarks. But, FWIW, here's what they say:
The health benefits over time of stopping smoking include:
Within 20 minutes after quitting, blood pressure and heart rate decrease
Within 12 hours, carbon monoxide levels in the blood decrease to normal
Within 3 months, circulation and lung function improve
Within 9 months, there are decreases in cough and shortness of breath
Within 1 year, the risk of coronary heart disease is cut in half
Within 5 years, the risk of stroke falls to the same as a non-smoker, and the risks of many cancers (mouth, throat, esophagus, bladder, cervix) decrease significantly
Within 10 years, the risk of dying from lung cancer is cut in half and the risks of larynx and pancreas cancers decrease
Within 15 years, the risk of coronary heart disease drops to the level of a non-smoker
British doctors study showed that those who stopped smoking before they reached 30 years of age lived almost as long as those who never smoked. Stopping in one's sixties can still add three years of healthy life
A randomized trial from the U.S. and Canada showed that a smoking cessation program lasting 10 weeks decreased mortality from all causes over 14 years later
Nicotine has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as cocaine
@wolfpaw, @mikeBOS,
Apologies in advance for throwing data after data like this. As dear ol' Spence puts it "We all do have the right to choose our indulgences and (God forbid) choose to die enjoying it the way we want to". But WHY THIS indulgence from all of them? That too, when there are so many, so many..... indulgences out there in this wide...wide...world. That too when it is logically inconsistent with the ERE philosophy....
Apologies again.
Thanks. You're welcome. I do understand this is a very polarising topic, but some discussions are definitely NOMO POMO category for me. Based on my US sojourn though, I would say those stats looked believable. And like you did, sometimes I was witnessing one major road accident (mangled metal, glass all over, lanes diverted.....) pretty much every evening while travelling back home from work.
>> They should add terrorism to that list.
>> Even though it appears to be SOME people's #1 fear (thanks TV!)
Ha Ha... LOL!
@mikeBOS,
Overeating is also a recognised disorder/addiction in the same bracket as nicotine, caffeine etc... And the topic of food is just as polarising as smoking is. The same response that a smoker gives, i.e.: "I am going to do what I want to....." when you tell them they ought to cut it down.
The fact thet smoking is not (yet?) an addiction to you makes you a rarity. Consider yourself a very very lucky/blessed to not succumb to that slippery slope.
I don't want to look like some prim and prudish Auntie throwing scaredy remarks. But, FWIW, here's what they say:
The health benefits over time of stopping smoking include:
Within 20 minutes after quitting, blood pressure and heart rate decrease
Within 12 hours, carbon monoxide levels in the blood decrease to normal
Within 3 months, circulation and lung function improve
Within 9 months, there are decreases in cough and shortness of breath
Within 1 year, the risk of coronary heart disease is cut in half
Within 5 years, the risk of stroke falls to the same as a non-smoker, and the risks of many cancers (mouth, throat, esophagus, bladder, cervix) decrease significantly
Within 10 years, the risk of dying from lung cancer is cut in half and the risks of larynx and pancreas cancers decrease
Within 15 years, the risk of coronary heart disease drops to the level of a non-smoker
British doctors study showed that those who stopped smoking before they reached 30 years of age lived almost as long as those who never smoked. Stopping in one's sixties can still add three years of healthy life
A randomized trial from the U.S. and Canada showed that a smoking cessation program lasting 10 weeks decreased mortality from all causes over 14 years later
Nicotine has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as cocaine
@wolfpaw, @mikeBOS,
Apologies in advance for throwing data after data like this. As dear ol' Spence puts it "We all do have the right to choose our indulgences and (God forbid) choose to die enjoying it the way we want to". But WHY THIS indulgence from all of them? That too, when there are so many, so many..... indulgences out there in this wide...wide...world. That too when it is logically inconsistent with the ERE philosophy....
Apologies again.
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Wolfpaws58
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:41 am
I find it interesting that this turned into a dabate over which habit is worse. Smoking, Heroin, Over eating, Drinking or having Casual Unprotected Sex. OK I admit it, I have engaged in all five activities at one time or another. The point is no one is perfect AND I MEAN NO ONE. I was only kidding about the casual unprotected sex and heroin, I've never tried those but it's never too late I suppose.
Back to my original point I will reiterate for those who CHOOSE to smoke that rolling / injecting your own is currently far less expensive than buying pre-rolled cigarettes in my state at least which is currently Indiana. I thought this was a site for money saving ideas, not a place to judge and be judged. I can get that anywhere and I can also guarantee anyone can be judged on one front or another. I cast stones at no one because I am admittedly an imperfect being. God bless those who found their way to perfection.
That is all.
Enjoy and SAVE if you happen to be a smoker.
Back to my original point I will reiterate for those who CHOOSE to smoke that rolling / injecting your own is currently far less expensive than buying pre-rolled cigarettes in my state at least which is currently Indiana. I thought this was a site for money saving ideas, not a place to judge and be judged. I can get that anywhere and I can also guarantee anyone can be judged on one front or another. I cast stones at no one because I am admittedly an imperfect being. God bless those who found their way to perfection.
That is all.
Enjoy and SAVE if you happen to be a smoker.
I do believe that one person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins.
So smokers, please respect the right of non-smokers to breathe clean air.
And non-smokers, please respect the rights of smokers to enjoy themselves. I absolutely hate self-righteous people who insists they have a right to tell others how to live their lives ("You shouldn't smoke/drink/eat meat/have sex because it's bad for you").
So MikeBOS, you go ahead and enjoy your cigars.
So smokers, please respect the right of non-smokers to breathe clean air.
And non-smokers, please respect the rights of smokers to enjoy themselves. I absolutely hate self-righteous people who insists they have a right to tell others how to live their lives ("You shouldn't smoke/drink/eat meat/have sex because it's bad for you").
So MikeBOS, you go ahead and enjoy your cigars.