MBTI as a disorder/disease

Should you squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle or from the end?
Sid
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by Sid » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:41 pm

This makes me think, is it better to exploit one's strengths, or improve weaknesses? I think play to strengths most of the time, but sometimes work on decreasing weakness.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:42 am

Generalization/specialization reminds me of.. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7936&p=121748&hilit ... on#p121748
Last edited by daylen on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:19 am

Hey INTJ's, might want to watch this. Here is an ENTP that knows everything about your nature. Some of his other videos go into Jungian Theory where the mbti system can be expanded to include (ego, subconscious, unconscious, superego). There is also more contextual background that establishes a link between human cognition + action and information + attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPLzbSyQ10U&index=7

Question: Is there any theory/person/field that attempts to merge linguistics + information theory(*) + Jungian Theory + praxeology + evolutionary theory? Seems to me that they all go neatly together, since symbols contain information that captures attention and can trigger action which leads to emergent behavior (agents, relationships, contracts, tribes, firms, institutions, governments, civilizations, society).

(*) Including networks, algorithms, cybernetics, and so forth.

UK-with-kids
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by UK-with-kids » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:19 am

Sid wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:41 pm
This makes me think, is it better to exploit one's strengths, or improve weaknesses? I think play to strengths most of the time, but sometimes work on decreasing weakness.
At our start-up we recently had a workshop based on the Gallup Strengths Finder, also known as Clifton Strengths. Each team member completed an online questionnaire which then 'revealed' their top 5 strengths out of the 34 strengths in the model. The 34 are split grouped into strategic thinking, influencing, relationship building and executing types of strength.

The idea of this is to help understand how you work and how others work, and who has which strengths. The way it was explained was that everyone should concentrate on their strengths as they will achieve a lot more that way, but it's also helpful to be aware of your weaknesses. Whether you try to improve them a bit or outsource and delegate those things to others, there's no point in flogging a dead horse.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:21 am

Here is a site that has information on how to type people efficiently by identifying temperament and interaction style. These dimensions can be put into a type grid format that is easily visualized.

https://lindaberens.com/resources/metho ... ity-types/

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:03 am

I would like to elaborate on the relationship between individual preferences and emergent social structures in a way that further shows how arbitrary social rules are (like what sick is).

Depth psychology further classifies people based on which cognitive functions they prefer. There are typically two different ways in which people take in information (Ne-Si or Ni-Se), and two different ways people make decisions (Te-Fi or Ti-Fe). Si-Ne attends to past information and future possibilities; Ni-Se attends to future goals and present possibilities; Fi-Te makes decisions based on personal desires and the rationale of their in-group; Ti-Fe makes decisions based on personal logic and the values of their in-group. The introverted functions stabilize cultural volatility, and extroverted functions explore new social configurations.

Individual differences + scarce resources = social rules/boundaries/norms. These social rules define what is "normal", therefore normality is dependent on the distribution of what a population attends to. This differs wildly based on culture(*), available resources, and geography.

One thing I am curious about is how the distribution of preferences (or attention) pairs up with different nation-states. For example, America is more of a SJ (guardian) dominate culture, while Japan has a larger proportion of NT's (intellectuals). I also want to know how such social structures emerge based on individual preferences, available information, and geography.

(*) I find that the word culture serves as an umbrella term for volatile aspects of a society that are not easily measured.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:13 pm

Time is tricky though. Hard to tell how fast all these factors change and how they are interrelated. I am sure there are some good stories to be told about it though.

Social structure, black hole, multiverse, human mind... all impenetrable systems that resist our experimentation. Only thing to do is to tell stories with different idealized objects and filter based on some rule akin to occam's razor. In the end, it depends on an individuals subjective ability to sort stories based on differences in descriptive ability and consistency with personal experience.

Sid
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by Sid » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:28 pm

On MBTI as a disorder/disease:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG_fAhk3ZGc -- good content source, thanks Daylen
At the 18:54 mark the guy makes a point related to thinking about the MBTI as a disorder/disease. It is that there are 4 parts of the mind, the ego, unconscious, subconscious, and superego, "enlightenment" is attained by holding the ability to entertain all personality types in each part of the mind equally/appropriately.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:58 pm

Careful with that model. I think it is over-fitting. Probably better to focus more on just the cognitive functions.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:36 pm

Here is another interesting framework that is related to the original topic. It is written by a "neuropsychological rehabilitation" company and relates different forms of cognition to the underlying areas/patterns in the brain.

https://www.neuronup.com/en/theoretical ... timulation

I presented a very one-sided position earlier, because I was focused on our over diagnostic culture. Here is an effort to balance that out a bit more..

The brain can definitely get trapped in a state where agency is almost entirely lost; the individual becomes much more dependent on others to maintain homeostasis, relativly speaking. Severe autism and schizophrenia are obviously no joking matter.

INTJ's can get confused for autism and INTP's can get confused for schizophrenia (less common). These are both spectrums with asperger's and schizoid personality disorder in the middle.

The autistic symptoms may just be high Te/Se with low Fe? .. and schizotypic symptoms may be high Ne with low Fi? I am still mapping this out.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:52 pm

Also, ENTP's and narcissism. :P

IxxP's = ADD and ExxP's = ADHD .. where P is strong .. low conscientiousness basically.

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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by jacob » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:18 pm

It should also be acknowledged that disorders are often defined by context.

If you're the only INTJ in a herd of ESFPs you're probably going to feel pretty odd and therefore lonely... and vice versa. This feeling alone could cause psychological issues. That doesn't mean that there's something innately wrong with the personality type, just that it's in the wrong environment. Just like there's a Hollingworth gap in intelligence, there are also gaps when it comes to temperament. Only here the map is four or at least two dimensional. There are people who live near the center ... and then people who live at the perimeter.

It's similar to how introversion is seen as a problem or at least something to be corrected for or practiced away in the US whereas in Finland it's a virtue.

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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by jennypenny » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:18 pm

daylen wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:52 pm
Also, ENTP's and narcissism. :P

IxxP's = ADD and ExxP's = ADHD .. where P is strong .. low conscientiousness basically.
I thought low executive function was correlated with low conscientiousness (and high neuroticism). Executive function affects conscientiousness and neuroticism scores, not the other way around. There's obviously a combination of nature/nurture in traits like conscientiousness, but there are objective, quantifiable traits (like short term memory) that impact executive function, which then impacts the big five.

daylen
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Re: MBTI as a disorder/disease

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:37 pm

Yeah, you're right. Conscientiousness is definitely more complicated.

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