New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
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New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Ok very touchy subject here so feel free to delete.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08- ... ite-people
(Disclaimer: Source is biased heavily towards a libertarian/conservative point of view)
Normally I try and avoid this stuff since it is eveywhere these days, but as this is such an influential/big newspaper I thought maybe it warranted discussion?
Once again not trying to start fires for poor Jacob to put out, I know this one is a potential minefield, but I've grown to appreciate the high level of maturity/objectivity here(Truth fears no examination, and all that), and I'm genuinely curious about what people think...is this bigoted behavior? Or because of her status as a minority, acceptable as the times seems to think?
The article brings up a good point in that It provides a very interesting contrast with the Roseanne Barr fiasco (Social Media sure is bringing everyone closer together isn't it? )
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08- ... ite-people
(Disclaimer: Source is biased heavily towards a libertarian/conservative point of view)
Normally I try and avoid this stuff since it is eveywhere these days, but as this is such an influential/big newspaper I thought maybe it warranted discussion?
Once again not trying to start fires for poor Jacob to put out, I know this one is a potential minefield, but I've grown to appreciate the high level of maturity/objectivity here(Truth fears no examination, and all that), and I'm genuinely curious about what people think...is this bigoted behavior? Or because of her status as a minority, acceptable as the times seems to think?
The article brings up a good point in that It provides a very interesting contrast with the Roseanne Barr fiasco (Social Media sure is bringing everyone closer together isn't it? )
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Eh. It's the NYT, so she won't be an outsider, nor drop the quality, so I don't see her being a problem at all.
Will she be a hypocrite? Probably. We all get to change our minds, eventually.
But what I object to, is pulling old, obnoxious tweets, and making the case that a few tweets sums her up.
This is the sad, NYT level of journalism, and I expect better, here.
Tyler can't even get to the junior high level of journalism found in Newsweek, let alone the HS level of the NYT or the Atlantic Monthly, and he can't blame an editor, or space restrictions.
Will she be a hypocrite? Probably. We all get to change our minds, eventually.
But what I object to, is pulling old, obnoxious tweets, and making the case that a few tweets sums her up.
This is the sad, NYT level of journalism, and I expect better, here.
Tyler can't even get to the junior high level of journalism found in Newsweek, let alone the HS level of the NYT or the Atlantic Monthly, and he can't blame an editor, or space restrictions.
Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
That lady has posted 108,000 tweets.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Kinda like the answer to Tomi Lahren.
I have Lahren blocked on my news and Facebook feeds. Would block someone like this editor too.
Why can't we all get along?
I have Lahren blocked on my news and Facebook feeds. Would block someone like this editor too.
Why can't we all get along?
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Is it bigoted behaviour? Yes
Is she going to get in to trouble for it? Unlikely
Is she going to get in to trouble for it? Unlikely
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
There is no journalism, like yellow journalism. Still Tyler didn't write the tweets, and the sheer number of them suggest that it was more than a simple matter of speaking out in anger, as we all do time to time. This women means business!Riggerjack wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:43 pm
Tyler can't even get to the junior high level of journalism found in Newsweek, let alone the HS level of the NYT or the Atlantic Monthly, and he can't blame an editor, or space restrictions.
At any rate her output should be highly entertaining crazy stuff, I'm half curious to see what she wrote at her former job.
Last edited by Mikeallison on Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
I think that it’s irritating that people are mining old tweets to stir up shit.
I think it’s irritating that people post crap in a public place and then try to excuse it away when they’re called on it. Hey, you knew it was public when you put it out there—don’t be shocked when you’re held accountable for it.
I think private companies are free to deal with it however they wish. ABC fired Roseanne, not for an old tweet, but a current one. Disney fired that guy for an old Tweet. The NYT is free not to fire/decline to hire if they so choose. Their paper, if there are consequences let the NYT live with them.
I am about sick of social media in general and people whining about consequences of shit they posted, and people whining about non-consequences for other people.
I think it’s irritating that people post crap in a public place and then try to excuse it away when they’re called on it. Hey, you knew it was public when you put it out there—don’t be shocked when you’re held accountable for it.
I think private companies are free to deal with it however they wish. ABC fired Roseanne, not for an old tweet, but a current one. Disney fired that guy for an old Tweet. The NYT is free not to fire/decline to hire if they so choose. Their paper, if there are consequences let the NYT live with them.
I am about sick of social media in general and people whining about consequences of shit they posted, and people whining about non-consequences for other people.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Here come the thought police. Except this time it's in the name of a good position, and also possibly a satirical response to the bad thought police. So totally legit this time.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Sorry to have upset you, I'm not quite fed up with it yet. Watching the battle for control over the overton window is kinda fascinating to me right now.EdithKeeler wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:12 pmI am about sick of social media in general and people whining about consequences of shit they posted, and people whining about non-consequences for other people.
But, but I want to control the narrative!
Last edited by Mikeallison on Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Eh, I wouldn't call for her to be fired for it. However to say there isn't any hypocrisy when it comes to saying similar things about any race/sex combination except for white men and the other way around isn't anything crazy.ZAFCorrection wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:17 pmHere come the thought police. Except this time it's in the name of a good position, and also possibly a satirical response to the bad thought police. So totally legit this time.
Also I suspect that a large portion of the right(which I myself am not a part of) isn't actually outrage by most of these things people are tweeting but rather holding people to their own standards since those are the standards that seem to be in power. Does it make you a little bit of a hypocrite? Yes. Is it effective when you aren't the one in power culturally? Yes.
It's actually people on the right following Alinsky's rulebook. Quite a twist given how anti-Alinsky republicans/right wingers used to be, but I guess when you are no longer the cultural hegemon change has to happen.
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
?? Why do you think you’ve upset me?Sorry to have upset you, I'm not quite fed up with it yet. Watching the battle for control over the overton window is kinda fascinating to me right now.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Hypocrisy is only such a terror because the properly-developed postmodern mind can't think of any other sins, or at least any that are nearly so bad. It doesn't seem to have any significant real-world consequences. It's certainly not worth all the kvetching and shitting on other actually useful principles.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
@Edithkeeler
You just sounded really exasperated by the topic in general haha. I debated posting this one at all because I think alot of people are (I'm definitely fed up with certain parts of the news cycle), but it is interesting, for me at least, to see how people here perceive and interpret the news/other random ideas ( in other words, It's gotten too hot for me to do my normal outside activities/ projects so I've taken to pestering you guys inbetween reading and playing digital golf.)
You just sounded really exasperated by the topic in general haha. I debated posting this one at all because I think alot of people are (I'm definitely fed up with certain parts of the news cycle), but it is interesting, for me at least, to see how people here perceive and interpret the news/other random ideas ( in other words, It's gotten too hot for me to do my normal outside activities/ projects so I've taken to pestering you guys inbetween reading and playing digital golf.)
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
@MA - Well, it's certainly hypocritical and bigoted, but in terms of proportion, it's not even close to what has been going on at breitbart and the alt-right sphere in general.
It is also faulty logic to use individual examples to explain entire groups. In particular, it's hypocritical to make such conclusions ("shots fired") about Their-Side if the same standard is not applied to Our-Side. That includes holding Their-Side to Their-Standards insofar Our-Side constantly violates Their-Standards as well(**) --- which is exactly what's going on in this case. Indeed, consider that this would not be of interest/most talked about news in this hour of time, if it wasn't so unusual seeing this on the left.
Most recently there was a discussion about the left becoming more violent. Indeed, violence from people associated with the left is increasing---but it's increasing from practically zero(*). In terms of sheer quantity and "quality" (murders vs harassment), what's coming from people associated with the [alt-]left pales in comparison to what's coming from people associated with the [alt-]right.
(*) The extremist left was very politically violent in the 1970s, but since then political violence has been overwhelmingly associated with the extremist right.
As far as twitter (and facebook and youtube) go, quantitatively, it's mostly the right that's getting cracked down on because of the quantity of violations. Many of those may very well just be bots retweeting each other.
I realize that people mostly live in news filter-bubbles and echo-chambers and that algorithms and news-curating makes this hard to avoid. However, I would recommend adopting a statistical approach (so don't find an example of a single person ... it's actually against the lynch mob forum rules anyway) and look for counterparts on Our-Side who do the same thing.
This means verify that one does not live in a house of glass before throwing rocks. Or at least post in a neutral fashion. Here, it would mean starting from the point that racism is an independent variable (generally associated with authoritarianism on the political compass) and thus one finds it on both the authoritarian-left and the authoritarian-right. Next, look into the prevalence of the A-factor on both sides (clearly leans right currently) ... which prob explains the larger number of racists on the right. This does not means that the right causes racism. It's "merely" correlated. However, if one finds oneself well-correlated, it seems better to attempt to clean one's own house before focusing on other houses.
(**) This pertains to how you deal with an opponent who fights dirty. Should you fight dirty yourself? What do you do once the opponent calls you out for fighting dirty? I think "you started it" trumps "you're a hypocrite".
It is also faulty logic to use individual examples to explain entire groups. In particular, it's hypocritical to make such conclusions ("shots fired") about Their-Side if the same standard is not applied to Our-Side. That includes holding Their-Side to Their-Standards insofar Our-Side constantly violates Their-Standards as well(**) --- which is exactly what's going on in this case. Indeed, consider that this would not be of interest/most talked about news in this hour of time, if it wasn't so unusual seeing this on the left.
(That's me quoting the bible. A rare sight.)Matthew 7:1-5 wrote: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Most recently there was a discussion about the left becoming more violent. Indeed, violence from people associated with the left is increasing---but it's increasing from practically zero(*). In terms of sheer quantity and "quality" (murders vs harassment), what's coming from people associated with the [alt-]left pales in comparison to what's coming from people associated with the [alt-]right.
(*) The extremist left was very politically violent in the 1970s, but since then political violence has been overwhelmingly associated with the extremist right.
As far as twitter (and facebook and youtube) go, quantitatively, it's mostly the right that's getting cracked down on because of the quantity of violations. Many of those may very well just be bots retweeting each other.
I realize that people mostly live in news filter-bubbles and echo-chambers and that algorithms and news-curating makes this hard to avoid. However, I would recommend adopting a statistical approach (so don't find an example of a single person ... it's actually against the lynch mob forum rules anyway) and look for counterparts on Our-Side who do the same thing.
This means verify that one does not live in a house of glass before throwing rocks. Or at least post in a neutral fashion. Here, it would mean starting from the point that racism is an independent variable (generally associated with authoritarianism on the political compass) and thus one finds it on both the authoritarian-left and the authoritarian-right. Next, look into the prevalence of the A-factor on both sides (clearly leans right currently) ... which prob explains the larger number of racists on the right. This does not means that the right causes racism. It's "merely" correlated. However, if one finds oneself well-correlated, it seems better to attempt to clean one's own house before focusing on other houses.
(**) This pertains to how you deal with an opponent who fights dirty. Should you fight dirty yourself? What do you do once the opponent calls you out for fighting dirty? I think "you started it" trumps "you're a hypocrite".
Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
I'm a bit annoyed by there being total difference consequences for individuals doing this, primarily seeming to depend on race and sex.
I think, for most jobs, a person should not have their career destroyed over it. Like art, technical work, etc.. Other careers, where ethics and judgement are critical, they probably should have some consequences. (An editor might fit more into the latter category, except that organizations are alway slanted some way, and if a persons (poor) actions are aligned, it's going to be acceptable).
To a large extent, the rules are now well known. A straight white cisgendered male (that has the potential of public scrutiny) must act mostly PC on public mediums when it comes to race, gender, etc. or risk some amount of backlash. A black person, an asian woman, etc. can really push things with little consequence. Right now, those are the rules, and they aren't that hard to follow.
I generally take a strategy of accepting the current rules and figuring out how to live well myself. This applies to other realms of life like education, capitalism, taxes, etc. (of course some times I'm breaking those 'rules', and either accepting the consequences, or breaking in a manner unlikely to be caught). It might not be the best strategy for all of man kind in the long run,.. but,.. I get to win.
I think, for most jobs, a person should not have their career destroyed over it. Like art, technical work, etc.. Other careers, where ethics and judgement are critical, they probably should have some consequences. (An editor might fit more into the latter category, except that organizations are alway slanted some way, and if a persons (poor) actions are aligned, it's going to be acceptable).
To a large extent, the rules are now well known. A straight white cisgendered male (that has the potential of public scrutiny) must act mostly PC on public mediums when it comes to race, gender, etc. or risk some amount of backlash. A black person, an asian woman, etc. can really push things with little consequence. Right now, those are the rules, and they aren't that hard to follow.
I generally take a strategy of accepting the current rules and figuring out how to live well myself. This applies to other realms of life like education, capitalism, taxes, etc. (of course some times I'm breaking those 'rules', and either accepting the consequences, or breaking in a manner unlikely to be caught). It might not be the best strategy for all of man kind in the long run,.. but,.. I get to win.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
@Jacob
Interesting. I catch your drift about glass houses and chucking bricks, but I think the difference here is that the right has no interest in residing in the glass house that the left has constructed.
In other words the right and the left hold two increasingly distinct standards when it comes to morality, if the right doesn't subscribe to the same morality as the left, then do they care when they are called out when they violate rules in a game they aren't even playing? However when the left violates their own standards in such a blatant manner it is kinda funny.
Political correctness is a tenant of the alt-left far more than the alt-right, so supposing that the right needs to "clean house" about being politically incorrect, when they generally hate the idea of political correctness is hard for me to grasp.
Disclaimer being I don't agree with all that is going on on either side, although I'm more sympathetic to the right at the moment, I hate the authoritarian side of it. The authoritarian side on the left just scares me more with all the PC stuff.
Edit*
I wanted to add that calling evey little thing racist or sexist dillutes those terms, and makes it very difficult to tell who is actually a bigot. The alt-right knows this and has purposely baited/trolled the left into making the label meaningless. So in this case political correctness has had the oppisite effect, providing cover for true racist, by making the term too general.
Interesting. I catch your drift about glass houses and chucking bricks, but I think the difference here is that the right has no interest in residing in the glass house that the left has constructed.
In other words the right and the left hold two increasingly distinct standards when it comes to morality, if the right doesn't subscribe to the same morality as the left, then do they care when they are called out when they violate rules in a game they aren't even playing? However when the left violates their own standards in such a blatant manner it is kinda funny.
Political correctness is a tenant of the alt-left far more than the alt-right, so supposing that the right needs to "clean house" about being politically incorrect, when they generally hate the idea of political correctness is hard for me to grasp.
Disclaimer being I don't agree with all that is going on on either side, although I'm more sympathetic to the right at the moment, I hate the authoritarian side of it. The authoritarian side on the left just scares me more with all the PC stuff.
Edit*
I wanted to add that calling evey little thing racist or sexist dillutes those terms, and makes it very difficult to tell who is actually a bigot. The alt-right knows this and has purposely baited/trolled the left into making the label meaningless. So in this case political correctness has had the oppisite effect, providing cover for true racist, by making the term too general.
Last edited by Mikeallison on Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
@MA - Then it comes down to my last sentence.
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Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
@Jacob
Edited this after giving it some more thought,
Thinking about it a bit more, you are probably dead on that the petty behavior on both sides is destructive and counter productive. However "being the bigger person" only works when the nature of the disagreement isn't an actual existential threat. I can let it slide when a guy cuts me off in traffic, I can't when someone is actively trying to usurp values I care about, and replace them with a rigid ideology that appears dangerously totalitarian and oppressive. This is how I view the PC culture of the left. If the right were trying to create a fundamentalist society that strictly enforced christian values, I would hate that as well.
Re: New NYT Editor, a bit bigoted?
Zerohedge is usually among the top domains being retweeted by the Russian twitter bots
http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/
Today both zerohedge and the Jeong story are being promoted by the bots.
http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/
Today both zerohedge and the Jeong story are being promoted by the bots.