Free Speech: Thank You Jacob

[enigmaT120]

Now I feel bad because I haven't been banned from the MMM forum. Maybe I should visit it more often. I'm a right and left wing extremist.

[prognastat]

@enigmaT120

If you become active there and either regularly express right wing opinions or simply defend people's right to hold those opinions it won't take you long to join the club.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Charles Hugh Smith:
Here’s How We Are Silenced By Big Tech

https://oftwominds.cloudhostedresources ... Fblog.html

[Jean]

Sometimes I marvel at how collectively weird all of us are, with viewpoints that sometimes verge on the bizarre, but I can't recall ever, someone not allowed to express an idea unless they tried to dox someone. No hive mind here.

I have been a few times, i don't understand how i disrespect the rules, but i do understand which ideas aren't allowed to be expressesd, and why, so i limit myself to express them in a way that Jacob might understand, but that anyone wanting to smear him for letting me write them wouldn't. It's a shame that there is no diverse (opposed to an ideological ghetto) platform that can afford to allow open discussion on those ideas, because open discussion is probably the only way to limit the extent of futur violence. But i'm not putting the effort to gather smart people, and maybe diverse people talking about various subject for years has more positive impact than diverse people talking about the important issue for a week before the platform gets destroyed. We are entering a dark âge. The plus side is that censorship favors poetry, and poetry is a good channel.

[Jean]

I got a music vidéo censored for hâte speech on YouTube, it was a cover from a 16th century love song:
Milles regrets de vous abandonner et d'élonger votre face amoureuse, j'ai si grand deuil qu'on me verra bref mes jours définer.
Pictures in the vidéo where some Corn monocrop, Big City, straved ukrainian child, an ils billionaire, a tar sand field, a suv. I assume linking a billionaire to those events is what qualifies as hate speech... But we have some kind of a problem here if no one ever get a chance to rationally show that there is no link.

[jacob]

I'll refer back to this post earlier in the thread for the overall moderation mission [statement] ->

... This is why the forum moderation policy is not aimed at optimizing free speech but rather on minimizing disrespect (within the Overton window of a largely global population of almost all ages, genders, socioeconomics, and beliefs) and thoughtlessness (within the Overton window of a mature person living within objective reality, so no "alternative facts" or obvious "pants on fire" crap).

It might sound funny/unserious to use games to describe how I run the forum or life in general, but I (NiFi) find [games] a rather rich source of metaphors and frameworks as many people have thought a lot about them---sometimes more than they have about real life. Indeed, I estimate a high probability of this being misread/misinterpreted, but I see the forum as an infinite-type game, where the I as the moderator avatar is a real true neutral (<- long but possibly worth it to understand my guiding philosophy for this place and what's likely to get you in trouble) with a zot staff. My mission here is to keep the "ERE forum" infinite. Think of it as occasionally having to interfere to maintain a healthy ecology. Or think of it as aiming towards us-together becoming wise(r) like (Kegan5) crowd rather than together becoming dumber like a (Kegan2) herd.---For the latter and much in between there's twitter and so many other places. But the former is rare, like in real life.

In general, I will give people enough rope to hang themselves either because I think they deserve it or because I think they have enough self/other-awareness handle themselves or because I think they can be handled by the forum. However, whenever that approach fails, I'll snipe posts that disturb the wa (especially 6).

[Jean]

I think i understand your moderating fairly well. I just don't understand how my last sniped post was disturbing. It was juste a joke about news, and the repeated claim thf did about his race in relation to my claim, which was then self contradicting. It appeared to me more like a reaction to a Taboo than a way to prevent disharmony.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Charles Hugh Smith:
Here’s How We Are Silenced By Big Tech

https://oftwominds.cloudhostedresources ... Fblog.html

Google Demonetizes Zero Hedge

“For Us or Against Us”

[Mister Imperceptible]

Caitlin Johnstone: Greenwald’s Intercept Resignation Exposes The Rot In All Mass Media

Matt Taibbi: Glenn Greenwald On His Resignation From The Intercept

Joe Rogan Experience #1556 - Glenn Greenwald: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rcLsoIKgA

[Jean]

One side effect of impossibility of discussion, is that you start to have to assume bad faith from everyone that disagree with you.
Everyone starts to except the worse from the other side. Everyone makes the experience that the other side is mistreating him, or about to do it. Or maybe one side is just lying, but i don't know how one can trust one's judgement enough to know that one is right. Hope you'll all be safe tomorow. America is a great place with great people.

[Mister Imperceptible]

If you take all the machinery in the world and dump it in the ocean, within months more than half of all humanity will die and within another six months they’d almost all be gone; if you took all the politicians in the world, put them in a rocket, and sent them to the moon, everyone would get along fine.

[7Wannabe5]

I like Fuller, but that is a bad comparison. It should be something more like engineers vs politicians or machinery vs laws and rules.

[Lemur]

@MI

Thanks. Listening to the JRE podcast you posted and it is a very interesting listen.

[plow_2]

This topic reminds me of a book I finished last week "The Coddling of the American Mind"
highly recommended. Not a left/right book. Some have mischaracterized it as a right wing book as it criticizes the college protest trends.

[UK-with-kids]

It's interesting to read this thread and note the focus on "The First Amendment" - something that is of course unique to the US in the way it's enshrined into the constitution.

Just yesterday in Britain there were multiple news articles about proposals to prosecute individuals for hate crimes based on what they discuss in their own homes. Here is an example from a highbrow left-leaning newspaper: https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ch-at-home

Many people in the UK have gone to jail for "hate speech" posted online, for example racist comments on Facebook. Private conversations in a more public setting such as a bar are already susceptible to the legislation as they can be witnessed or secretly recorded. Targeting people's discussions in private houses seems like a drastic further step.

[jennypenny]

Are they going to hand out free Alexas too?

I admit it may be a character flaw, but I bristle more at hate speech rules than hate speech itself.

[JollyScot]

Yeah that hate speech rule is a depressing item that is being push by the government in Scotland.

It looks as though it will go through as there is very little in the way of actual push back from parties in power. I tried contacting my local representatives on it. Got ignored or a cookie cutter response from most.

The only person who sounded equally concerned was a Green Party representative. Unfortunately most people don't care much about it here or are even aware its happening. Our media gets drowned out by US media a lot more now.

We never specifically had free speech in law as we operated on the model of. It legal unless expressly stated otherwise. That's beginning to change, we will see if a fight comes properly when it does get close to implementation.

For a country who likes to call itself free we have happily given it away recently. At a seemingly accelerating pace, time will tell if we can roll the march back. Doubt it.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Rebel Wisdom: What Is Happening With The Facebook Purge?

Lex Friedman and Eric Weinstein: Joe Rogan is Under Attack

[Mister Imperceptible]

https://mobile.twitter.com/gestaltz/sta ... 7068592130

Yay unaccountable Orwellian bureaucracies

[JollyScot]

I remember when that story came out initially. It is brutal what they did to those people. I'm still pretty sure for a lot of them it hasn't even been fixed sufficiently yet.

With the move to automated systems too. Now it is very much a blameless mass of people you can't actually contact or deal with. Here's the box I have to tick you aren't in the box. Everyone just goes on with their lives happy about how we are all good people. Then again humanity has always had a difficulty with that.

There was a reasonably good run and now the wheels are starting to fall off.

The comparison is the always its a Kafkaesque type system. I'd say hitchhikers guide to the galaxy got it right with The Vogons.

I'm not looking forward to the pandemic costs falling due. I'm expecting the knives to be out.