An ERE-er in the news!

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Viktor K
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An ERE-er in the news!

Post by Viktor K » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:58 am

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/su ... -story-89k
She ended up taking a higher-paying job in another city and downsized by living in a small apartment. Because she chose an affordable apartment near her work, she sold her SUV. Downsizing and selling her things helped make an impact on her debt.
...in a matter of years, she was able to go from making $9 per hour in 2012 to making $200,000 per year
Though Julie successfully increased her income and downsized her lifestyle, she still had to make sacrifices.
After paying off her debt, Julie is focusing on her next big goal: saving a million dollars and retiring in her early thirties. Currently, she’s already at 20 percent of her goal using the same strategies and principles she used to get out of debt.
She apparently has a blog too which I haven't checked out yet. I wouldn't be surprised if that foot traffic is helping her make some revenue as well.

What happens if ERE catches on for everyone in the world (not saying it will)? Would that be a good thing? Is it sustainable?

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Eureka
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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by Eureka » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:29 am

Saving a million and retiring in her thirties does not make her ERE. I didn't read the article, but is she aiming at reducing her imprint on the planet and into systems thinking? A million is also way more than the typical ERE goal, why does she want that much?

I think it is essential to keep in mind, that retiring early is just one of many aspects of ERE, which is a whole philosophy.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by jacob » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:35 am

I keep a scrap book on the wiki in case I'm interviewed or ERE is mentioned.

http://wiki.earlyretirementextreme.com/ ... nd_the_Web

For the "what if" question, see

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/what- ... -less.html
viewtopic.php?p=95414#p95414

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by Viktor K » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:46 am

Eureka wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:29 am
Saving a million and retiring in her thirties does not make her ERE. I didn't read the article, but is she aiming at reducing her imprint on the planet and into systems thinking? A million is also way more than the typical ERE goal, why does she want that much?

I think it is essential to keep in mind, that retiring early is just one of many aspects of ERE, which is a whole philosophy.
Meh, this strikes me as very elitist when I first read it.

But okay, she's not ERE.

She's certainly not like the mainstream, though.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by ThisDinosaur » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:52 am

Victor, I feel your pain. I've also been chastised for confusing ERE with FIRE. The million dollars for a one person household is like a giant red line in the sand between the two. Bigger differences include the use of systems thinking to solve most needs without money, and being a bigger producer than a consumer.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by Eureka » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:25 am

Victor K, elitist or not, to me ERE has been a huge inspiration as a way of living that does not focus on how much money you need/have but on how you actually chose to spend your time and your ressources.

It might be worthwile to notice that one of the E's in ERE stands for 'exteme' and that there are many ways to live/save/spend money inbetween mainstream and ERE.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by Viktor K » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:55 am

@Eureka Fair enough, but if you read the article it doesn't go into enough detail about how or what she did to pay off the $89k in student loans. You can't really say she isn't ERE any more than you could say she is.

And from the sound of the article, she's saving for her and her husband, and with that being considered, $1,000,000 doesn't sound like too much for an ERE-person.

Who knows, she could be someone on this very forum, but maybe the reporter wasn't interested in the nitty gritty.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by IlliniDave » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:50 am

Eureka wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:25 am
Victor K, elitist or not, to me ERE has been a huge inspiration as a way of living that does not focus on how much money you need/have but on how you actually chose to spend your time and your ressources.

It might be worthwile to notice that one of the E's in ERE stands for 'exteme' and that there are many ways to live/save/spend money inbetween mainstream and ERE.
Whetever it is about ERE that inspires you, seize it and make the most of the inspiration. A popular saying on another site I visit regularly is: "There are many roads that lead to Dublin." The point being contentedness and the paths to get there are about as numerous as the people who strive for it.

I suppose it is a matter of whatever standard one is comparing to which would determine if it is extreme. Clearly someone like me with a plan to check out at ~age 55 with maybe ~$1M invested and a bit of a pension is not extreme by any measure, but it does put me in a small demographic cohort on the right tail, certainly somewhere in the space between ERE and mainstream. To do the same 20 or more years faster than I did is extreme from my perspective, significantly more so from the mainstream perspective. I spelled extreme with a lower-case "e" since, not having read the book or much of jacob's blog, I couldn't properly identify the threshold between ERE and not-ERE.

And like you said the key is how you spend your time and resources, not how much (or little) money you have. Maybe I'm a little lackadaisical in my fervor for the first "E" because by the time all the possibilities seeped into my conscious mind, it was already far too late for me to attain ERE bona-fides. I also admit to being a little sensitive to the subtle disdain from many fronts for people who do the work and make the sacrifices to put a meaty hammer in the retirement toolbox.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:35 am

IlliniDave said: I also admit to being a little sensitive to the subtle disdain from many fronts for people who do the work and make the sacrifices to put a meaty hammer in the retirement toolbox.
I would like to state for the record that "disdain" does not at all accurately describe my reaction to the visualization of this analogy. But, might even be a bit better for me if you could slip the adjective "robust" right in there between the "meaty" and the "hammer" and change the definite article to a gender-specific personal possessive.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:07 am

IlliniDave wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:50 am
I also admit to being a little sensitive to the subtle disdain from many fronts for people who do the work and make the sacrifices to put a meaty hammer in the retirement toolbox.
If I'm interpreting this right, you're saying [Index-Fund + Consumerism + 4% Rule] crowd are subject to condescension from "hardcore", True Scotsman ERE people?

If so, I agree. However, it could also be interpreted as 1)a warning that your strategy is not robust, or 2) frustration about oversimplifying the ERE System/Philosophy. Due to the principle of charity, I choose to interpret it that way.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:18 am

Or, it might sometimes be indicative of sour grapes on the part of those who try to madly knit together a tiny magic carpet of resilient solution with not entirely admirable ( work + sacrifice/attempt at cleverness + resort to charm) ratio.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by jacob » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:59 am

Remember this thread? viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5166

There are definitely two rather different understandings of what ERE means.

1) One is Early-FIRE achieved through any means possible. Win a million dollars in the lottery. Inherit it. Earn high six-figures. Spend like everybody else. Stop working for money when enough money comes from somewhere else.

2) The systems approach described mainly in the ERE book and the wiki and to a smaller degree on the blog in which FIRE is more like a side-effect of the general design than the end-goal.

Of course this is all my fault for naming it "early retirement extreme"... It certainly can be frustrating/confusing to have the same acronym/words for two very different things both in terms of means, ends, and frameworks. However, practically speaking (strategies, tactics, etc.), there's big difference between achieving FI by earning $200k+ per year and achieving FI by spending under $20k/year.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:30 pm

The curb appeal of both ERE and the 4% FIRE movement is that "anyone can do this." Contrast with the mainstream view that "you need to be a multi-millionaire to be FI." ERE is, on the face of it, a step further in the direction of "anyone can do this" because it requires even less in savings.

Jacob, FIRE is a "side effect" for you, but its the main draw for lots of us. That's why I like your definition of sacrifice being trading one thing of value for a thing of greater value. If I had inherited a billion dollars, I would not be learning to garden.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by IlliniDave » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:42 pm

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:07 am

If I'm interpreting this right, you're saying [Index-Fund + Consumerism + 4% Rule] crowd are subject to condescension from "hardcore", True Scotsman ERE people?

If so, I agree. However, it could also be interpreted as 1)a warning that your strategy is not robust, or 2) frustration about oversimplifying the ERE System/Philosophy. Due to the principle of charity, I choose to interpret it that way.
Eh, maybe you have it partly right. The "[Index-Fund + Consumerism + 4% Rule]" is substantially lacking in breadth though, and an example of oversimplifying the very broad world outside of hardcore ERE. For my own part from my very first post here a number of years ago I made it clear that I am not a bona-fide ERE-er (jacob said I could stay anyway) and as regards the future I'll be [partly index fund+relatively low consumption + <1% rule (even though I don't actually have such a a rule)]. I meant pretty much what I said. To expand it some, think of it as people who a) don't try to make financial assets the smallest part of their financial independence they possibly can, and b) who do a good job building wealth. The disdain comes in two basic forms. From some among the "True Scotsman"-types it's basically "your Kool-Aid is diluted so you are ignorant/a heretic." From some among the mainstream it is "you are a rich ba$tard so you are fundamentally a bad person". From there ERE crowd specifically there is relatively little of that stuff.

There's a saying that paraphrased goes something like "No plan survives contact with the enemy". So what it boils down to is the robustness of the person, not that of the person's plan. It's not something that can be discerned from an account balance or going-in position.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by FBeyer » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:57 pm

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:30 pm
...Jacob, FIRE is a "side effect" for you, but its the main draw for lots of us...
No. FI is a side effect of ERE for all of those who apply it no matter what drew us all into it to begin with.

ERE is a philosophy that can be applied to 40 years as a career person as well, if one would so choose. That person would be FI in a very short timespan, but ERE still applied.

Homotelic strategies applied to a system of career choices is still within the scope of ERE to handle. I'll admit that it's a skewed way of applying it but it's definitely feasible. ERE is a robust general problem solving strategy.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Make sure you're not doing something that is working against your intended goal.
Create value.
Solve more than one problem at a time.
Create a system of independent but internally complex modules to stabilize your existence and the execution of your plan.
Do some introspection and find out what you truly need, not what others want you to need.

Tell me how that is not a completely general strategy?

ERE is a philosophy. Incidentally it's a philosophy that CAN be applied to reach financial independence.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:22 pm

FBeyer wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:57 pm
ERE is a robust general problem solving strategy.
And which problems are you most concerned with?
For me, financial security is the goal. Environmental sustainability and preparedness for uncommon catastrophes are very desirable side effects. They are arguably more important. Its a testament to the Strategy that it accomplishes all of these for less effort than any one of them alone. But I am selfish, and I wouldn't devote my limited energy to these other goals without the FI benefit.

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Re: An ERE-er in the news!

Post by slowtraveler » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:25 pm

Owning no car, living close to work, downsizing home- these sound like web of goals system solutions that lower financial, environmental, and health costs in one fell swoop.

Yeah, she's earning 200k+ but that's more fuel to the fire without lifestyle inflation.

I vote this is ERE.

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