Sailing, Simplicity, and the Pursuit of Happiness

Favorite quotations, etc.
KevinW
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Post by KevinW »

Video interview:

http://sailingsimplicity.com/liveaboard ... me-at-sea/
Quote from about 7:55:

"People always say I could never live like that, but it's not true. I think people are more capable of living with less comfort and in more challenging situations than they do...Yes, everyone can live with less than they have, and everyone can live in small spaces...I don't think everyone can live in a boat...but could people learn to live in a small cabin, to fend for themselves, to fix things and manage things in a different way? Absolutely."
Blog:

http://sailingsimplicity.com/


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Argh! Now I want to buy a boat and go sailing again. Thanks a lot, dude ;-P


Piper
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Post by Piper »

Yes, I would not be happy living in a boat. I do not like the ocean. I would be very happy living in a shack or yurt in the mountains, though.


KevinW
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Post by KevinW »

Yeah, it looks nice, but I don't think the liveaboard lifestyle is in the cards for me for the foreseeable future.
I toy with the idea of buying (or building) a boat around 12', but suspect that will just be the first step in a journey that ends with me spending a lot on a 23-ish sloop that I rarely use.
This site doesn't help:

https://www.boatdesigns.com

If you build it yourself it doesn't count, right?


Surio
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Post by Surio »

I've always dreamed of a trimaran like in Waterworld, but reality always kicks in for me too quickly. I am a vegetarian (quite firm about it too) so we still need to get to land for supplies. Of course, we need to pay for them supplies, meaning there has to be a bank a/c, internet to access it from anywhere, tax for holding on to account within a certain country.....list goes on (repairs? What about them?). It always seems like the logistics on this is somewhat more complicated than being a landlubber.
And besides, how does that girl pay for her things? I mean, that website domain hosting, wi-fi internet for facebook updates, she's an eggitarian, so supplies supplies is another concern for her too........
Hmmm...

Sorry for that minor braindump!


jacob
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Post by jacob »

@KevinW - Do you understand the price lists for the boatdesign page? How much would one need to build the listed boats? I'm trying to estimate prices.
@Surio - Seaweed harvesting ;-) There actually is a concept called seasteading. I imagine the learning curve is as steep as farming on dirt. The finances are the easiest part to organize---similar to permanent travelers. Get a mailbox with an address, use a mail forwarding service.


sky
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Post by sky »


KevinW
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Post by KevinW »

I think you could estimate costs from the Bill of Materials (BoM) as follows:
- Use the price of their kits for everything except wood (fasteners, hardware, rigging, sails).

- Count the number of linear feet of each standard dimensional lumber size (2x4, 2x6, etc.). If the BoM calls for a non-standard size, treat it as the next larger size. Maybe add 10% to account for errors and scraps. Round up to the nearest 8' board length.

- Quote lumber prices from homedepot.com

- From what I've read it's important to use true marine grade plywood, which Home Depot doesn't stock, so I'd quote that from something like this:

http://www.bristolvalley.com/catalog.as ... prevnext=1

- If you want to estimate systems like plumbing or appliances, check price at westmarine.com or similar.
You can probably beat some of these prices, but I find that budgeting from retail prices leaves slack for unanticipated expenses.
There are some logistical challenges that may cost money:

- a workspace that accommodates and permits a half-built boat

- getting wood from the lumberyard to your workspace

- moving the finished boat to a launch


Surio
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Post by Surio »

@Jacob,

I didn't know. Thanks.

>> I imagine the learning curve is as steep as farming on dirt

I know what you mean. DW has naturally green fingers with plants, and I am always struggling with them. Bookish knowledge is certainly no substitute.
@sky,

Thank you for the link.
I know which thread to revive, after I've collected my thoughts.


Surio
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Post by Surio »

Man, this seasteading business is like some alternative movement of its own! I am too individual to go into yet another "gated-community-on-the-sea" (in honour of those seaside villages)
That book shared by sky sounds more appealing to me. Looks more Waterworld style to me.
Any other resources you could spare, sky?
Oh, BTW @Sky,

That's an impressive website you've put up. Very informative. It seems you're very keen on your hobbies. I loved that dory that you seem to have built all by yourself. Very EREish skills!
P.S: DW said That's one huge yacht parked in your garage! Specs of the yacht, and a video if you please, bitte! ;-)


sky
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Post by sky »

There is a fairly large community living on boats and traveling, or "cruising". Typically a sailboat between 30 and 45 feet is a good choice for a couple to liveaboard. Singles are better off with a slightly smaller boat. Smaller is usually much less expensive.
You can live this lifestyle spending lots of money, or you can live cheaply, very cheaply. I frequently hear budgets of between $1000 and $1500 as being normal, the truly stingy can do it for $500 a month. You do have to be careful because there are some traps that you can fall into that could cost a lot of money. Most traps are related to either consumption of alcohol, a dock at a marina, refrigeration on board, or other boat repairs. By the way, a vegetarian diet makes it quite easy to provision for a boat.
The best way to learn about this lifestyle is to read websites of people that are living it. Here is a good place to start: http://cruisenews.net/db/shipsatsea.php This is probably the biggest collection of cruising websites anywhere. Forgive the dead links.
In the US, the eastern coast has a "canal" called the ICW (Intercoastal Waterway?), stretching from New York to Texas. You can travel this route without any long ocean crossings. Just about any type of boat can stay in the south during winter, and move up to New England or the Great Lakes during the summer. There are excellent cruising areas in the Chesapeake Bay and in the Carolinas. The Bahamas and the rest of the Caribbean require only a few overnight trips on more open water.
On the west coast of the US, Mexico and the Baja peninsula are very popular destinations. For those that upgrade their boats to "passagemaker" ability, the oceans are no barrier. One can travel to Pacific islands, South Africa, South America, Atlantic islands, Mediterranean, (to name a few popular areas) or pretty much anywhere.
The best place to learn how to do it is probably the east coast of the USA, the Bahamas and the Caribbean.
Many people are retiring on to a boat. I am amazed at the number of new blogs coming up from new cruisers. I have been collecting these links since 1996, my website is just an overgrown hobby page.
There are pics of my boat here, although I see the page is out of date: http://www.cruisenews.net/tanzer/


jacob
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Post by jacob »

@sky - I keep seeing that one can expect to motor most of the time on the ICW. Is this a big boat thing i.e. not willing to tack every two minutes or is there no wind at all?
Lately I've been revising my ambitions downwards and I'm now looking at a trailer-sailer (West Wight Potter 19) as a potential first boat (not a livaboard). The ICW looks like it might be the place to sail one of those. How easy is it to stay out of marinas on the ICW? As far as I understand the sf bay, it's close to impossible around here.


Mo
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Post by Mo »

@Jacob, Sky may have some better thoughts on this, but to a certain degree, perhaps when you see it you'll understand why. Technically the ICW is mandated at a min. 12 feet deep, and a min. 90 feet wide (IIRC), though it's not always perfectly maintained. In certain areas you could sail, based on the size and depth of the body of water the ICW is traversing, and the characteristics of your boat, but in other areas it really wouldn't work very well. Imagine trying to sail a 30 ft boat on a 300ft wide river.
I've sailed a Potter before, but not owned one. I wasn't overly fond of it-- I felt like I was on a big sunfish. What appeals to you about it?


Mo
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Post by Mo »

Also, the gulf coast of florida, and the keys allow one to stay out of marinas-- on the hook, if that's what you mean. I don't know much about the ICW outside of Florida though.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

@Mo - I figured it was something like that; one of the races last year went through the Oakland estuary; downwind under spinnaker jibing every 45 seconds. A small boat could sail much closer to the shores.
What attracts me to the Potter is that it's trailerable, potentially storable in a garage, good heavy weather performance (for its size) and that it's apparently quick to launch and can be single-handed. In summary: A pocket cruiser with low upkeep costs.


sky
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Post by sky »

If you want to sail, it is best to go out onto the Atlantic. The "ditch" (ICW) is a canal and while you may be able to sail on a canal, depending on wind, chances are that you will have to motor. In the Atlantic, you need a boat that is well maintained and capable of offshore sailing. There are only a limited number of inlets where you can get back into a harbor, so you could be on the Atlantic for days.
I'm in the Great Lakes so I am not really an expert on the ICW, to be honest.
My 28 foot sailboat is up for sale, and I am building a trailerable sailboat. My current concept is to take a backpacker's point of view and only take the necessities. I think a trailerable boat makes more sense, as long as you don't get caught out in bad weather in the open. But there are many sheltered destinations. For example, the Tenn-Tom canal, (Tennessee River and Tombigbee River) which is in Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia, where you travel through mountain lakes to get from the Ohio River to the Gulf of Mexico. I would like to trailer to Kentucky and take my time going down south on the rivers.


Mo
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Post by Mo »

@Jacob, I'd certainly agree that the Potter has some desirable characteristics in terms of storage and portability.
The major upside to keeping a boat on a trailer in a garage is cost. The major downside is that without extreme dedication (generally not your problem :) ) you'll probably use the boat significantly less. Boat ramps, trailers, launching and hauling, are generally a pain. Stepping onto your boat at a slip, generally a pleasure.
I've never endured heavy weather in a Potter, and I doubt I ever will, so my comments in that regard should be viewed accordingly. Manufacturers and enthusiasts for almost any type of boat will tout its ability in less than ideal conditions. The standard endorsements fall into two categories: vague, relative claims (e.g. 'good for its size') or stories of long passages. Neither are particularly useful really.
I think a P19 could be a very fun boat, but perhaps more suited to nice days in a coastal or inland setting. Another major advantage for you-- you can probably find one lightly used at a good price.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

@Surio - There's the Seasteading Institute, but seasteading is an independent concept kind of like how agriculture doesn't equal the Department of Agriculture :)
@Mo - My intention is to use it for coastal/inland and getting my feet wet, hopefully figuratively. I wouldn't be brave enough to take it into open sea. We spend 30 minutes on readying the two boats I normally sail on---it seems like with some practice it takes the same time to launch this one.


Surio
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Post by Surio »

@jacob,

I understand that, but my fear is that this "individual" concept as I read and understood in @sky's link (thanks once again, Paul) will soon be subsumed by the institute (ooooh, look, VC funding!) and become a bloated thing with shareholders, ROIs Etcetera.
For example, as you rightly point out, "agriculture" shouldn't be == "MAFF", but in India, agriculture has become *almost* synonymous with State-department of agriculture/university labs with all the subsidies, meddling of who *must* grow what... (pretty much like EU; last I heard, Czech farmers were revolting against these decrees!)
P.S: Thank you for indulging my Waterworld cliche'! As a fellow Orlov reader, I thought you may hold me to account for that (deliberate) silliness.
Hmmm, as an aside, I am thinking which famous diamond should I steal to be able to afford a trimaran/boat in India to begin with. =). Would it be more "cool" to build a junk/Dhow instead!
EDIT: I assumed dhow included the Indian design, but apparently not. Building an uru perhaps.


sky
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Post by sky »


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