Interesting reply on another forum

[Dave]

@jacob, Its unfortunate it has to be that way. I have a feeling I'm going to find this out the hard way as I will be all too excited once we reach FI status. I have a couple of friends that understand what we're doing but would never do it themselves. The family...not so much. The DW and I honestly want to tell her folks now the path we are taking but part of me just knows they wouldn't get it and might even be disappointed with our decision. Not sure what we'll do yet... Might just tell them I'm working from home full time now. Wouldn't be lying.

You will be an asset manager, obviously . Construct a silly title: Financial Asset Capital Allocator, for Cmonkey Capital Group (CCG).

[jacob]

@Dave - This is a common approach but I, personally, can't do that with a straight face.

[SimpleLife]

I haven't seen any "studies" one way or the other, but don't know why survey responses would be any more reliable or insightful than what a person observes first-hand. It's like there's this alleged secret cult of misery out there that I just just don't encounter. I would tend to agree that people don't see their jobs as perfect, or even great or good. But to me it's a stretch from there to an unhappy life or "SUCK". Peanut had some very good insight above.

I think the surveys that show that 70% of Americans hate their jobs makes it a reasonable assumption that they don't enjoy the other 50 weeks a year at work (when not on vacation). I didn't say they hate life itself, just work. As you saw in that thread, the majority of people said, 'we all have the same problem, when you find a solution, let us know'.

Also, for those who are paid low wages and are barely existing, I'm reasonably certain that most of those people don't think "life is great" unless they are intellectually challenged. Living in crappy conditions, with a crappy job, feeding yourself Ramen after working two jobs, is a sad reality for many Americans. I doubt that they are happy with that, and wouldn't prefer living a lifestyle out of a Kanye West music video.

[SimpleLife]

FWIW, I've already figured out my title when retired: Real estate investor. I actually think this is more prestigious than Engineer. Investment class vs. working class. Not really concerned with it sounding cool really, just to keep people off my back. Plus you can say I'll still be "working" since I self manage my properties. It will just be very part time.

[cmonkey]

Cmonkey Capital Group (CCG).

That is excellent! I'm with jacob, I could never do that without a lying smirk on my face.

[IlliniDave]

I haven't seen any "studies" one way or the other, but don't know why survey responses would be any more reliable or insightful than what a person observes first-hand. It's like there's this alleged secret cult of misery out there that I just just don't encounter. I would tend to agree that people don't see their jobs as perfect, or even great or good. But to me it's a stretch from there to an unhappy life or "SUCK". Peanut had some very good insight above.

I think the surveys that show that 70% of Americans hate their jobs makes it a reasonable assumption that they don't enjoy the other 50 weeks a year at work (when not on vacation). I didn't say they hate life itself, just work. As you saw in that thread, the majority of people said, 'we all have the same problem, when you find a solution, let us know'.

As always, I think it's not what we look at that matters, it's what we see. Perhaps I'm gullible, but I tend to accept other people at face value. For the most part rue "hate" is pretty easy to spot. For the most part people who think things completely SUCK are easy to spot. Perhaps there are some people skilled enough at deception to hide that around me, but not 7 of 10 people I know. Maybe absent the hyperbole we would have more common ground than it appears.

[disparatum]

As always, I think it's not what we look at that matters, it's what we see. Perhaps I'm gullible, but I tend to accept other people at face value. For the most part rue "hate" is pretty easy to spot. For the most part people who think things completely SUCK are easy to spot. Perhaps there are some people skilled enough at deception to hide that around me, but not 7 of 10 people I know. Maybe absent the hyperbole we would have more common ground than it appears.

@IlliniDave, I've liked most of your responses on this thread, probably because I agree with them . People can get used to almost anything. This is why I've kind of concluded that the oft prophesied decline of industrial/technological society will not be so bad as everyone imagines. Most people will simply adjust and muddle through. You could find this either depressing or encouraging, I suppose.

Another thing I've realized (and that others have already mentioned) is that most people simply don't spend all their free time thinking about how much better their life could be and how much their current one pales in comparison to the one they're leading. Maybe they're unimaginative or thinking too short term, but if that keeps them from being miserable about their lives, maybe there's a lesson to be learned here.

In general, I'm not so sure I want to achieve some state of perfect happiness and contentment. I know that's not really what anyone is suggesting, but maybe some stress and occasional dissatisfactions are good for you, because it gives you something to overcome? Maybe the relative paucity of free time makes it more valuable and you appreciate it more? I dunno.

[OldPro]

Do keep in mind people that we NEED a working class in order for we in the leisure class to be able to live a life of leisure. Where would we be without them to provide a lot of the things we need/want to have?

So walk softly guys when interacting with people who do not have any plans to FIRE. Suggesting to everyone you meet that, "I was not put on this earth to commute 2hrs a day & spend 9-10hrs at work, just so I can pay out over 45% to taxes, and support our Govt and its populace.", is not in your own self interest really. There are enough of you already as evidenced by this forum's existence, who have discovered MY secret of not working for a living. I don't need you proselytizing to all and sundry that they too should quit the rat race. Let's just keep that our little secret OK?

[SimpleLife]

I haven't seen any "studies" one way or the other, but don't know why survey responses would be any more reliable or insightful than what a person observes first-hand. It's like there's this alleged secret cult of misery out there that I just just don't encounter. I would tend to agree that people don't see their jobs as perfect, or even great or good. But to me it's a stretch from there to an unhappy life or "SUCK". Peanut had some very good insight above.

I think the surveys that show that 70% of Americans hate their jobs makes it a reasonable assumption that they don't enjoy the other 50 weeks a year at work (when not on vacation). I didn't say they hate life itself, just work. As you saw in that thread, the majority of people said, 'we all have the same problem, when you find a solution, let us know'.

As always, I think it's not what we look at that matters, it's what we see. Perhaps I'm gullible, but I tend to accept other people at face value. For the most part rue "hate" is pretty easy to spot. For the most part people who think things completely SUCK are easy to spot. Perhaps there are some people skilled enough at deception to hide that around me, but not 7 of 10 people I know. Maybe absent the hyperbole we would have more common ground than it appears.

Subjective opinion based on only your perceptions of your limited experience. I stand by my statement, surveys from multiple companies, have demonstrated that the vast majority of people do not like their job. It is more reasonable to conclude that they don't like the majority of the time they have to be there, based on this, than to conclude most people are happy the majority of the time at work. Generally when you don't like your job you prefer to not be there.

[fiby41]

@OldPro: While on paper you may be right, any combined effect of ERE people on the world economy would be negligible unless a large part of working class takes up ERE, which is not going to happen.

Even then there is too much excess productivity, especially in the 'developed' world, to go around to support ERE.

If that wasn't the case, government wouldn't be able to take away, say, 45% of your paycheck and still have a functioning society at the same time. It is because the remaining 55% is more than enough to fulfil not only your but also on average 2 children (non productive people) who contribution to the economy is comparable to your leisure class.

That's why people may voice their opinions but aren't disgruntled enough to pick up pitchforks or try ERE.

[jennypenny]

As always, I think it's not what we look at that matters, it's what we see. Perhaps I'm gullible, but I tend to accept other people at face value. For the most part rue "hate" is pretty easy to spot. For the most part people who think things completely SUCK are easy to spot. Perhaps there are some people skilled enough at deception to hide that around me, but not 7 of 10 people I know. Maybe absent the hyperbole we would have more common ground than it appears.

Subjective opinion based on only your perceptions of your limited experience. I stand by my statement, surveys from multiple companies, have demonstrated that the vast majority of people do not like their job. It is more reasonable to conclude that they don't like the majority of the time they have to be there, based on this, than to conclude most people are happy the majority of the time at work. Generally when you don't like your job you prefer to not be there.

@SL--Surveys don't always reflect people's reality. Their design deliberately forces people to focus on details that they otherwise overlook most of the time. "Framing" is a common tactic employed by survey designers. Some survey outfits like Pew try hard to avoid it (although they'll admit it's impossible to remove completely), but most surveys have an agenda. 'Work' surveys are usually sponsored by businesses that benefit from work dissatisfaction, whether it's a recruiting service or a brokerage trying to convince people to invest more for retirement.

Think about cars instead of jobs. Most people are perfectly content with the car they drive. There are some who want to dump their car and many people will fantasize about a Carrera when it drives past, but in general, people like the car they drive. Now, if you ask them if they like their car or would buy it again, they will immediately start to think of all of the things they don't like about it -- the trunk lock sticks, the brakes need servicing too often, the radio cuts out sometimes, etc. Mentally itemizing everything that they don't like about the car will lower their perceived satisfaction and affect their answers on the survey even though they were perfectly happy with the car before being asked. Even if they say they wouldn't buy that car again, they obviously don't dislike the car enough to sell it.


I've always viewed people griping about work the same way I view people griping about their partner. It's kind of fashionable, if you know what I mean. I also don't think you necessarily have to like your job as long as it's serving its purpose (e.g. I don't like doing laundry, but I like clean clothes). For me, the appeal of ERE isn't to avoid working (I work now more than ever) but to avoid feeling 'beholden' to work and to have the ability to structure my work life in a way that suits me better.

[7Wannabe5]

I really think it's the lock-in that makes people unhappy, not the particulars of their workday. I've talked with a few people recently who have taken on flexible second jobs (such as Uber driving, and product placement) in addition to their full-time primary job, and doing this made them happier. Most people don't mind working. They just don't like not having options.

[IlliniDave]

I've always viewed people griping about work the same way I view people griping about their partner. It's kind of fashionable, if you know what I mean. I also don't think you necessarily have to like your job as long as it's serving its purpose (e.g. I don't like doing laundry, but I like clean clothes). For me, the appeal of ERE isn't to avoid working (I work now more than ever) but to avoid feeling 'beholden' to work and to have the ability to structure my work life in a way that suits me better.

This neatly summarize much of my view. Very few people would show up for their job if they were doing it on a volunteer basis, or had to buy a ticket at the door to get in. But I think most are able to see their occupation not exclusively as the collection of tasks they are doing at the behest of someone else, but see it as as the means by which they keep themselves and their families warm and dry and fed and clothed, etc. So you can look at the job, but what you see when you do will in most cases define the experience.

[steveo73]

Most people don't mind working. They just don't like not having options.

I think flexibility and autonomy are the keys to a good job. If you get that I think a lot of jobs can be enjoyable. The problem is that most jobs go through shitty periods plus a 40 hour week + commute is a long time to be at work especially then the shitty periods come up.

I want to FIRE as quickly as possible because of the reasons I listed above. I value my freedom more than being in a structured work environment.

[enigmaT120]

I don't mind my job, it's easy (like almost anything else), but I have better things to do with my time.