Stress is bad for me only if I believe it is bad for me.

[Ego]

I really enjoyed this talk by Kelly McGonigal about how my view of stress effects me.

http://www.ted.com/talks/kelly_mcgoniga ... embed=true

[almostthere]

Thanks for the lead. I also look forward to eventual studies of oxytocin and meditation. My guess is that a concentration practice based on"karuna" may also elevate oxytocin. I also wonder what we'll think of this talk in another ten years. The relationships between stress and the ability to be compassionate in its midst seems a bit more complex to me. Why does it happen for some and not for others?

[Ego]

Almostthere, your comments been pinging around in my head. She mentions that the release of oxytocin is part of the stress response. I wonder if meditation mediates the other more damaging hormone surges (cortisol) during stress but allows the oxytocin release.

-------

An aside, she posted a link to an interesting study that is related to this idea but talks about ego depletion and willpower, something I know many here find interesting. Here is a link to the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23959900

Baumeister found that willpower can be used up and then replenished. Glucose was one way to replenish it. In other words, ingesting glucose enhanced self-control.

This new study found that this process of replenishment worked only in those who believed it would work.

We hypothesized that the effect of glucose also depends on people's theories about willpower. Three experiments, both measuring (experiment 1) and manipulating (experiments 2 and 3) theories about willpower, showed that, following a demanding task, only people who view willpower as limited and easily depleted (a limited resource theory) exhibited improved self-control after sugar consumption. In contrast, people who view willpower as plentiful (a nonlimited resource theory) showed no benefits from glucose-they exhibited high levels of self-control performance with or without sugar boosts. Additionally, creating beliefs about glucose ingestion (experiment 3) did not have the same effect as ingesting glucose for those with a limited resource theory. We suggest that the belief that willpower is limited sensitizes people to cues about their available resources including physiological cues, making them dependent on glucose boosts for high self-control performance.

[almostthere]

I think what I was trying to get across, and it relates to you second point, is that the more I meditate, the more realize the multiplicity of environmental inputs that lead to "my" actions. For example, in the first talk you referenced, she states that those that believe stress helps them perform at their best are less likely to die. That is one mental point in a multiplicity of mental and environmental ques that influence an outcome. Likewise in the glucose study, I think in 10, 20, or longer years maybe we'll realize that these three cases were also influenced by numerous mental and environmental factors to come to an outcome.

On the meditation and chemical release, the following link for Leigh Brasington's guess on chemical release in states of high concentration (jhana):

http://www.leighb.com/jhananeuro.htm

For me karuna meditation is qualitatively different from other breath concentration and thus my guess that other chemical's are being produced.

[theplk]

what are you stressed about? is it good stress or bad stress?

[henrik]

http://www.ted.com/talks/kelly_mcgoniga ... embed=true

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

Now I don't think it necessarily negates any of what she says afterwards, but I find it hard to ignore the introduction:

This study tracked 30,000 adults in the United States for eight years, and they started by asking people, "How much stress have you experienced in the last year?" They also asked, "Do you believe that stress is harmful for your health?" And then they used public death records to find out who died.

Isn't it very likely that the people who thought stress was bad for their health thought so because they were already having health problems and were therefore also more likely to die?

[Sclass]

This was an interesting talk. The mind over body connection is strong.

At my last office I'd get stressed out into almost a panic state when I'd get stuffed into a little conference room with too many stressed out engineers. I'd have to keep saying the mantra that I had plenty of money and I'd welcome being fired for non performance. The other guys were the usual suspects with jumbo loans, kids in private school/college, nice lifestyle. They'd be shaking in their boots when we'd get pushed to cut back our deadlines.

I think I was smelling their fear hormones oozing out of their sweat glands. I'd really get set off. No matter how hard I tried to say this stress was nonsensical to me or was just empty words to prod the weak, I'd still get the jitters.

Same thing happened a week ago when I met an old friend in a tiny cafe stuffed with stressed out employees near an AAPL and HPQ office. I started to get the shakes. Me, Mister retired DGAF am shaking in my Keens.

So as much as I'd like to separate my fear and stress in the office, I'm afraid I'd still get keyed up on the other blokes in the stuffy room.

[Sclass]

Ok, here is another take on the first study. A lot of the people in the first study died of stress. And there was this other group who found the stress invigorating and all off them lived. Could this just be statistics of small numbers at work? It must have been a small minority who was under pressure who actually liked it.

Or maybe what she is really suggesting is they weren't stressed at all...just challenged for lack of a better word.

[Ego]

almostthere, I enjoyed those meditation links... thanks!

henrick, yeah, I guess that's possible. But 1) I want it to be true that my mindset determines how stress affects me, 2) it feels right and 3) if it is right then I will not be a victim of stress when it occurs but a beneficiary of it. Until proven I'll accept it as one of my points of intentional self-delusion.

Sclass, I believe it. Is it the negative mindset that's contagious or is it the negative stress itself?

[theplk]

Keep in mind that many people die from stress every day.

Many are unaware of how harmful that stress is and yet their bodies are still effected and they still die.

I'd encourage you to reduce stress rather than trying to trick yourself into believing something that could be quite dangerous for your health.

[Ego]

Thanks theplk.... Don't worry, my stress is almost entirely self-induced.

[Spartan_Warrior]

Unfortunately I'm at work and can't view the video. Did she go into any discussion on the relationship between cortisol (stress hormone) and catabolic state (muscle burning/fat building)? My understanding of the biological science has always been that cortisol is the primary contributor to catabolism and therefore (from my perspective as a fitness/bodybuilding enthusiast) is always to be minimized in order to maintain the body in catabolic (muscle building/fat burning) state as much as possible.

[almostthere]

@spartanwarrior -fascinating. thanks for the new idea.

[Spartan_Warrior]

@almostthere: No problem. I did notice a mistake in my post that I can't edit now--mixed up "catabolic" and "anabolic". The last sentence should've read: My understanding of the biological science has always been that cortisol is the primary contributor to catabolism and therefore ... is always to be minimized in order to maintain the body in anabolic (muscle building/fat burning) state as much as possible.

[Fleming]

Stress is really bad for the brain and overall health.
Some techniques can be followed to overcome the stress. Yoga and meditation are the best techniques to deal with the stress, depression, and many other mental problems.

[Tyler9000]

I haven't listened to the talk yet, but here's my first impression:

The premise seems to follow the argument I've heard before that struggle you enjoy is a "challenge", while struggle you dislike is "stress". The concept that your perception affects reality makes a lot of sense.

That said, in my own personal experience it's more complicated than that. Stress can also be involuntary, operating at a subconscious level. Anyone who has ever experienced an anxiety attack even while consciously at peace will understand what I mean. And Sclass's example of the emotions of others rubbing off on you is another good example. The body and subconscious mind have their own hard-wired controls that no amount of conscious rationalization will be able to affect.

[JamesR]

I think there's some conflation going on with the definition of stress. At the very least, there's probably different kinds of stress, some of which is good for you and some of which is bad for you.

There's also the psychological factor of _control_. If you have no control, then it's going to be the bad kind of stress. If you have control over it, then it's the good kind.

[Ego]

@Tyler & @James, she did an interview on kqed to promote a new book which touches on some of those issues you mentioned.

http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201505011000

This seems to mesh well with dragline's book club pick, Man's Search for Meaning.

[DSKla]

I'd agree you want to keep an anabolic balance, but I'll throw in that sub-lethal stressors (dipping into catabolism briefly then returning to anabolism) is an important mechanism for strengthening various systems. We all understand that muscles have to experience an overload stress, followed by a recovery, to get stronger. Immune systems work the same way (think vaccinations and low-level exposures frequently throughout childhood). I'm sure a lot of other systems in the body work this way--too many to list.

It becomes dangerous when you remain catabolic for long periods of time, with insufficient recovery in between. That's when shit breaks down.

Maybe people who are good at either telling themselves they're not really stressed, or who enjoy challenges, are actually just getting their cortisol levels back to normal in a shorter period, and experiencing longer periods of rest in between stressors. That could explain why a challenge feels invigorating. It literally is a strengthening experience in the form of a short-duration (possibly lower-intensity) stressor followed by recovery.

[jennypenny]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/insp ... our-favor/

McGonigal is making the rounds. Has anyone read the book yet?