An ERE dating site

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
Crusader
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Crusader »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:58 am
As long as the sun keeps shining, the feminine force of life and chaos will forever rise abundant over the narrow plans of man.
I think the man might have spiked the jelly and toast with something. Move out ASAP!

7Wannabe5
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Crusader:

lol- Nah, I just used to have a daily bus ride that went past dilapidated buildings in Detroit that now have trees growing out of them. Also, I think "Night of the Hunter" might be the greatest movie ever made.

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Alphaville
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:58 am
This reminds me of the more general systems conflict between efficiency and resilience. If you increase “tolerance” you decrease efficiency but you increase resilience.
ah hell, good connection there. yes.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:58 am
a grouchy old man
:cry:

ooof, i hope you flee soon. sounds abusive.

i don't mean abusive in that behavioral imperfection is abusive--everyone behaves imperfectly all the time.

i mean abusive in the sense that you can't yell back at him to take a pill and fuck off :evil:

the inequality of the relationship-- know what i mean? you can't negotiate, so you're trapped.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:58 am
the feminine force of life and chaos will forever rise abundant over the narrow plans of man.
ok i get that there's a poetry in that kind of expression, but i do have a problem "feminizing" chaos and masculinizing "plans" :)

we used to hang with 2 different couples where the relaxed/freewheeling husbands were nagged/henpecked into oblivion by their wives. this is not uncommon, we all know the types...

but anyway, yeah, nature finds a way :D

Miss Lonelyhearts
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Miss Lonelyhearts »

Seems probable that lightly soiled dishware rule is based more on boundary testing control seeking than strong internal notion of home economy. One consequence of having 98th percentile quantitive reasoning skill is that some portion of lower ranked men will feel adrift if they can’t prove superiority in some way. Dishwasher restrictions strike me as what I think you’ve termed weak azz?

7Wannabe5
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Alphaville wrote:i mean abusive in the sense that you can't yell back at him to take a pill and fuck off :evil:
I can and I have. In some of my less stellar moments, I have even gone to "The only thing worse than a drunk is a dry drunk." or "Why do I feel like I am back in a special ed classroom?" or "I didn't know you were the kind of Republican that was raised in a trailer. Your mother seems like a nice woman, must have been your father that watched "Hee, Haw." I literally asked him this morning, "Just as a mental exercise, is there any amount of money I could pay you in rent, that would cause you to alter your behavior towards more pleasant?", and he replied "You already know the answer to that."

Also, I am not exactly a helpless victim here. I am frustrated because I am trapped between my Covid risk and my commitment to extreme frugality in terms of my other housing options at the moment. Obviously, at least in the short run, I would rather tolerate extreme grouchiness than shell out over $1200/month for a motel room. I can only fervently hope that future me will be very grateful to in the present me. That's why I complain/explain about it on this forum. My "brilliant" scheme for getting free bed space from the affluence waste stream of old divorced/single men (Calorie KIngs) has CLEARLY failed for the same reason that buying your pants at thrift stores will fail if you don't check to make sure the zipper is at least working. It's true that you can sometimes get lucky digging in the dumpster, but often some other human did use good judgment when making the pitch. I only hope that the youngsters reading along will learn something of value from my demonstrated failure.
Miss Lonelyhearts wrote:Seems probable that lightly soiled dishware rule is based more on boundary testing control seeking than strong internal notion of home economy. One consequence of having 98th percentile quantitive reasoning skill is that some portion of lower ranked men will feel adrift if they can’t prove superiority in some way. Dishwasher restrictions strike me as what I think you’ve termed weak azz?
Good theory, but not the case, because he is equally unpleasant with pretty much all other humans. For instance, he reminded me that he wasn't super nice around his uber-millionaire friend either when I asked him the "How much rent would buy pleasant behavior?" question this morning. So, I don't take it personally, I just can't stand being around it anymore.

Miss Lonelyhearts
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Miss Lonelyhearts »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:18 pm
I can only fervently hope that future me will be very grateful to in the present me.
Seconded!

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Alphaville
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:18 pm
I can and I have.
see, in my marriage we're allowed to bark (because a barking dog does not bite). but the barking is done as a form of communication not as a teardown of the other. we're a "high engagement" couple.

used to be my wife would say nothing when frustrated, bottle it all up, and then explooooooode way later long after i had forgotten the things she'd be complaining about.

so i kinda taught her how to vent the safety valve at regular intervals. "if something bothers you, say something. i'm not a mind reader."

i like it when she barks at me now, and it often has me rolling on the floor laughing when she yells at me for some offense i caused her.

i heed the warning of course, it's the whole point of it, but she's funny and fair, and i like that she stands up for herself and keeps good boundaries.

but anyway we worked it out cuz it was worth it for us. nobody is perfect but we like each other and communication is always a work in progress.

this is not the case with you and that bitchy unpleasant dude though :lol:

so isn't there anyone else in your area you could room with? friend, relative, something?

7Wannabe5
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Miss Lonelyhearts:
lol

@Alphaville:

Gotcha. However, that sort of deal wouldn't work for me, because I really am easy-going with a wide margin of tolerance. I don't want even distribution of barking; I just want somebody, like me, who isn't naturally driven to bark a lot. Sometimes I do even pretend for effect or demonstration, "Is this where your socks belong?". "Hmmm, nice try, but I give these eggs a C minus." . "I thought you said you were going to be home at 8:00? Look at that clock and tell me what it says." like I am as easily annoyed or picky or rigid as some of the PITAs I sometimes find myself in relationship with, but I'm really not that much of a control-freak or attention-seeker. Actually, the only thing I am historically likely to throw a minor fit about is if I'm not getting laid in a monogamous contract. This current situation is pretty much the worst, because I'm tolerating overbearing grouchiness AND not getting laid.

ETA:
so isn't there anyone else in your area you could room with? friend, relative, something?
I could try to temporarily tolerate couch-surfing with my sister and her 4 dogs, but I can't really rely very hard on family members without putting myself at risk for getting stuck with full-time caretaking for my mother. I would rather live under a bridge in a high crime district than be my mother's full-time caretaker. Future me and all the poor likely to drown people in Bangladesh are bumming if the choice is between me blowing a shit-ton of money on housing vs. full time caretaking for my mother. Unfortunately, most of my friends in the area who live alone are old BFs/lovers who probably still want to have sex with me, so too much out of the frying pan and into the fire. Come to think of it, I do not have any other single females in my social circle, besides one of my sisters.

I was strongly considering buying a motorcycle camper for my Smart Car, but the hitch installation place told me that the only hitch that fits a Smart car is out of stock, probably due to Covid. I also considered selling the Smart Car and buying a small motorhome, but Covid makes all of these activities more tricky.

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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Jin+Guice »

@Crusader:

I could shell out some advice, but what do you want? It sounds like something between a life partner and totally unrestricted polyamory?


@7:

Sounds like you need to upgrade your hoes.

@jacob:

I think it might be easier to attract like Wheaton levels depending on where you are. Attempting to break through to W6 def upped my dating game, 4/5 not so much. It's helpful when you're not in the "giving things up" mindset but more in the "getting things creatively without money" mindset. You also genuinely disassociate a lot of things with money and it starts to get confusing when people try to pay for fun. Money ends up being the most boring way to get things. It's going to be difficult to date me if you spend most of your time in a place where you pay to be.




Deida's theory on masculinity and femininity is an interesting lens and I wouldn't write it off out of hand. I agree with @7 that it's not the be all and end all, but I think it can be useful. Perhaps it's less offensive if we remember that masculine and feminine are not qualities that are necessarily assigned to your birth gender (man, woman) and that, as with pretty much any binary variable that deals with humans, it's best viewed as a spectrum rather than strict dichotomy.

My takeaway from Deida's model is that masculine = Thinking (like T in MBTI) and Dominant (like D from D/s) and feminine is Feeling (like F from MBTI) and submissive (like s from D/s).

ertyu
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by ertyu »

I studied econ, and as an economist, am accustomed to the idea of having theoretical frameworks that are utter bullshit but supposedly useful. Anyone who's ever cracked a "theory of the firm" chapter knows what I mean: utter bullshit. It's been a while since I kept up with theoretical econ, but as far as I remember, Kahneman got a nobel prize in econ for showing that the assumptions about human personality and functioning that utility theory and thus the demand curve are based on are complete bogus. Why this is relevant: any "masculinity/femininity" theory is complete bogus in the same way. I don't know what this Deida dude said and I don't want to know because I think it will make me quite mad. Ditto shemp's theory on "what [gender] wants is status among [own gender]." Ditto JP's lobsters etcetera.

What these theories are good for, however, is selecting for like mates. Consider shemp: shemp has discovered about himself that what he wants is status among his peer group. He has theorized that what women want is status among other women. Based on this theory, he has devised an arrangement and a course of action. Is this course of action applicable to "women" in general? Of course not. But it has selected for a woman who does want the things shemp has on offer. The theory, even though it's bogus when applied to "all" men or "all" women, has located a counterparty in an arrangement that works well for both. Both give each other the type of status they want, and thus the arrangement is stable and functional.

Ditto, someone who desires a thinking and dominant or submissive and feeling partner could devise a course of action based on deida's theory. One could think about what "thinking" and "dominant" qualities a "feeling" and "submissive" partner might want, and strive to develop and provide those in a system of exchange. Some % of the population is likely to go, "barf, can you be any more of a walking caricature/stereotype, get some depth, maybe" but those are not the people you want. The people who will stick around, regardless of gender, will be those who do subscribe to this T/D and F/S system. You get to be that guy who reframes his own emotional constipation as "thinkingness" and who scores a traditionally ditzy partner who is willing to act out the corresponding "roles" in that system. The theoretical framework, albeit bullshit, has allowed for a stable arrangement with double coincidence of wants.

Thus I would recommend skipping the entire "men are" and "women are" stage, and to instead focus on who you are as a person and what you want. You think about the sort of partner you would like, and what they are likely to want. You devise a system that optimizes for a double coincidence of wants, and you begin your search. If your search is unsuccessful, revise your theory and the proposed actions.

7Wannabe5
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Jin+Guice wrote:Sounds like you need to upgrade your hoes.
True, but I like 'em pretty and I can't afford pretty and well-behaved.

@ertyu:

I for the most part agree with your argument, so...hmmm..."focus on what I want"...

1) I throw him up on the countertop.
2) He throws me up on the countertop.

1) He uses his stupid boy head to make decisions.
2) I use my smart girl head to make decisions.

1) He is more emotional than me.
2) I am more emotional than him.

Answer: 2,2,?(Problem I've sometimes encountered is that you don't really want somebody who can throw you up on a countertop getting emotional on you when you maybe imply that he is a stupid-head by making too many decisions.)

Also, likely because our culture was more sexist when I was coming of age in the very late 1970s, I find it very hard to disassociate the behavior of "throwing human up on the countertop" from the archaic concept of "masculinity." But, Eddie Van Halen is dead (sigh), so it's probably time to move on.

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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by jacob »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:11 pm
True, but I like 'em pretty and I can't afford pretty and well-behaved.
I smell (ha!) a trilemma
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7876

Miss Lonelyhearts
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Miss Lonelyhearts »

What’s the third leg? Single?

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Alphaville
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Alphaville »

it's a catch-22 :P

also:
ertyu wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:31 am
I studied econ, and as an economist, am accustomed to the idea of having theoretical frameworks that are utter bullshit but supposedly useful. Anyone who's ever cracked a "theory of the firm" chapter knows what I mean: utter bullshit. It's been a while since I kept up with theoretical econ, but as far as I remember, Kahneman got a nobel prize in econ for showing that the assumptions about human personality and functioning that utility theory and thus the demand curve are based on are complete bogus. Why this is relevant: any "masculinity/femininity" theory is complete bogus in the same way. I don't know what this Deida dude said and I don't want to know because I think it will make me quite mad. Ditto shemp's theory on "what [gender] wants is status among [own gender]." Ditto JP's lobsters etcetera.
a toast! to good sense 🍻

also:
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:11 pm
But, Eddie Van Halen is dead (sigh), so it's probably time to move on.
his 2nd wife was a stuntwoman and wrestler. who threw who? ;)

7Wannabe5
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Miss Lonelyhearts wrote:What’s the third leg? Single?
I think it would be "inexpensive", to the extent this concept applies to the dating world. IOW, the sum of whatever I bring to the table would have to be greater if I wish to afford "pretty" and "well-behaved." I may soon be shopping for a literal dog and the same trilemma applies.

@Alphaville:

I prefer to imagine Eddie liking a challenge, but MMV ;) Anyways, given the advanced middle-aged status of myself and my dating cohort, I am willing to settle for "hoisting" rather than "throwing."

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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by IlliniDave »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:11 pm
.. But, Eddie Van Halen is dead (sigh), so it's probably time to move on.
You'd think I'd learn to never trust my instincts. Had I ever thought about it, I would have concluded David Lee Roth was probably much more your type, haha.

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Alphaville
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:54 am
IOW, the sum of whatever I bring to the table would have to be greater if I wish to afford
oh lol bean counting

Jin+Guice
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Jin+Guice »

@7:

Sounds like you need to train your hoes more effectively. Cleaning AND cooking are both expensive. Maybe you're secretly into grouchy?





Again, Deida's masc./ fem. framework is not about assigning those roles to biological men and women, it's about recognizing those characteristics in people and how they interact. I think it's useful to consider where you personally fit on the framework and where your potential partners fit on the framework. In this framework dissimilarities attract. I do think if you're dealing in the hetero/ monogamous/ vanilla/ dominant culture world of dating, it is largely true that most men skew masc. and most women skew fem. Being cognizant of a theoretical framework that is partially true allows you to first navigate it and eventually play with the roles, if you wish.

7Wannabe5
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

“IlliniDave” wrote: You'd think I'd learn to never trust my instincts. Had I ever thought about it, I would have concluded David Lee Roth was probably much more your type, haha.
Why not both? :lol: Actually, your instincts are good, I did prefer David Lee Roth. Eddie Van Halen just came to mind due to his recent death as iconic of how very many years ago it was when I played strip poker and made out with two cute stoned boys at the same time in the fort in the woods. Truth be told, the super stereotypically masculine Rod Stewart was my hard crush that year. OTOH, I also liked older man Robert Wagner. Also, Mick Jagger and John Travolta (that is who I thought the two boys I made out with looked like.) Obviously, the Mick Jagger doppelgänger was the more “grouchy” boy. Jack Nicholson is a great example of the sexy, grouchy type, but I didn’t have a crush on him yet when I was 14.
“Jin+Guice” wrote: Sounds like you need to train your hoes more effectively. Cleaning AND cooking are both expensive. Maybe you're secretly into grouchy?
I’ve read a few books offering advice on how to be more of an assertive bitch, but just not my style. I don’t really do a ton of housework. In fact, a sexist thought I had recently was that if I was a guy maybe I would be stereotypical easy going bum. Dunno.

Crusader
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Re: An ERE dating site

Post by Crusader »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:49 pm
@Crusader:
I could shell out some advice, but what do you want? It sounds like something between a life partner and totally unrestricted polyamory?
I want a serious relationship with a woman that is compatible with me, and that I find attractive and of course the feeling has to be mutual. I am, however, complicated myself due to many reasons, so I am not even sure you should bother trying to give advice. Compatibility means many things, but for me, what makes me stand out is my militant atheism. I can't even handle if someone is agnostic or believes in karma or destiny. I really want a female version of Richard Dawkins. (Yes, yes, I know that every atheist is technically an agnostic, just like I don't know for sure that the Sun will rise tomorrow... so a "toothfairy agnostic" is ok, but when someone describes themselves as "agnostic", they usually aren't that).

Failing that, whatever, some kind of a relationship anarchy arrangement with whomever so that the sum of all my relationships fulfills all my needs.

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