Do you lie?

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
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Sclass
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Sclass »

Sure I'll share.

I have a family friend who got kidnapped in downtown LA at his business. 1970s. He escaped because the kidnappers were idiots...his ex-employees. They picked him up as he was opening up his business in the early morning. It was an eye opener for our friends. Everyone in my parent's circle started toning things down. At least the smart ones did.

It was a direct result of him showing off. Everyone knew this guy was rich. He told us. Idiot. Rags to riches story that just got retold over and over to anyone who would listen.

I am much poorer than that idiot and I still got my friends upset about my wealth. There is something about all the crabs trying to pull you back into the barrel when you climb out. 90% of my relationships were ruined by disclosing I had enough to retire early.

Admittedly this has to do with acting frugal. People assumed I was poor and liked me because I was a humble and resourceful miser. It was easier for them to look down on me than to feel envious. Once I retired people were genuinely worried about my financial situation because in their eyes I was poor. I screwed up and explained my entire situation with transparency and that torpedoed the friendships.

"Don't worry friends, I won't starve, see I have more money than you could have imagined!" Yup that went over well.

I mean I took "retirement" and "wealth building" advice from people poorer than me for years over beers. I never said, "ridiculous your rules don't apply to people like me." I just nodded my head and listened to their middle class wizdumb. This convinced them of their superior financial standing and thus made them comfortable with little old me.

I guess they kind of felt comfortable pitying me over the years. Reality was always under there but the middle class people I chose to socialize with are good at putting on blinders. I called a couple of days ago to skype in on Thanksgiving. I've missed our usual dinner for two years now after relocating. I'd think they'd want some retirement investing advice but nope. They seem to want to run away from me and my reality. It's got to be a coping mechanism.

Non of this occurred when I looked poor. I could have kept going and kept my old friends had I lied.

ShriekingFeralHatred
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by ShriekingFeralHatred »

blah
Last edited by ShriekingFeralHatred on Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sclass
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Sclass »

ShriekingFeralHatred wrote: I am considering to tell people I am on welfare and doing odd jobs on the side and imply my career went south, like I pissed off the wrong person and got shut out off the business or something.

I am just rambling, but I would love to hear people's deceit tips.
My dad has been telling family friends I got really sick and I have a bad heart. This is not really true because I got the heart fixed better than new. He makes me out to be a disability case to our friends who have not retired yet. It kind of pisses me off when people start out after not seeing me for years like I'm dying or something. I bite my lip so I don't mess up my dad's carefully woven lie. He's just trying to protect our friendships.

Nobody has asked for a loan yet. They already know the answer.

Sad stuff. I naively had this vision that it would go well but it didn't. I wasn't sharing in the toil anymore. I wasn't the object of pity. I wasn't the receiver of novice financial planning. I just kind of got cast off. I started to realize our get togethers were complaint fests about work, the economy, retirement, and the lack of money in general. Pretty sad thing to hang on to.

One of my really good pals calls when he's intoxicated. He gets really insulting and frank. The next week he acts like nothing happened. It's amazing to see his heart when his inhibitions are down. Envy mostly. Some anger. Mostly he tries to guess how much money I have and when he comes up with a number (usually wrong) he starts saying how it isn't enough to retire.

Whatever. I'm not sure these friends are even worth lying to.

ShriekingFeralHatred
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by ShriekingFeralHatred »

blah
Last edited by ShriekingFeralHatred on Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sclass
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Sclass »

ShriekingFeralHatred wrote:Haha good show, your dad knows what's up.

I take it some of your friends saw through your dad's tale. What do you think gave you away?
Yup. Mostly it is for his friends who are in their fifties and still working. Actually they believe him and they think I'm an invalid. The mind believes what it wants to.

They want to believe I am a nothing. So they go on doing that.

Amazing what people will accept especially if they already want to believe it. Just takes a little push from my dad.

steveo73
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by steveo73 »

I tend to not lie but it's tough. I have 6 weeks holiday coming up over Christmas. When I tell people the next question is "where are you going". The problem is that I'm staying at home. People think it's nuts.

James_0011
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by James_0011 »

Maybe I am just to young to understand all this, but it seems to me like these people aren't really your friends to begin with....

ShriekingFeralHatred
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by ShriekingFeralHatred »

blah

TimeTravel
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by TimeTravel »

I have never lied in my entire lifetime :roll: .

BRUTE
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by BRUTE »

pants aflame, full of shame

Farm_or
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Farm_or »

fiby41 wrote:A thought...


Demerit list of those who lie to us based on intent or harm caused:

Lied to us to exploit us
Lied to us to protect their self-interest, with no effect on us
Lied to us to protect their friends, with no effect on us
Lied to us to protect their self-interest, at our cost
Lied to us to protect their friends, at our cost
Lied to us for no discernible reason
Sounds like my ex. I learned that there are some people that will climb a tree to tell a lie when they could tell the truth with both feet on the ground.

Early in our relationship, she'd try to enlist me in her elaborate schemes. I'd say, "BS! You better just hope that they don't ask me, because I will just flat out tell them the truth!"

suomalainen
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by suomalainen »

What purpose would "telling the world" "I told you so" serve? Why do you care what other people (whom you've presumably never even met) think?

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Sclass
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Sclass »

Hey Bigato. Yeah, this was awhile back. The group of friends I’ve described have pretty much gone on without me. I emailed last week saying I’d be in the old neighborhood but nobody responded. I was hoping to meet up for dinner at one of our old haunts. But sadly, no. Old friends don’t want to continue our relationship.

It’s not so bad. I’m kind of through the transition. That was the shocking time when people were their worst.

Funny I’ve recently drifted apart from a very interesting friend I made after he became wealthy. He cashed out of his startup for nine figures in USD. I honestly feel a little uncomfortable around him now. We still talk but our relationship has changed with his staggering net worth. We just live on different planets now. Totally different life problems. So maybe I’m a little guilty of the same thing.

I guess I’ll just carry on being low key from here on out. Even if I need to be a little deceptive.

Seppia
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Seppia »

it happens the most when talking about money.
I usually don’t ask people, so I don’t know for sure, but I have reason to believe I’m better off than almost all my friends.
Some are as frugal or more than me, others make more money than me, but those two groups never intersect.
I just prefer to blend in.
Luckily, I very rarely have to lie (maybe once every couple years) as absolute net worth or salary is something people outside the closest couple friends will usually not ask.
My closest couple friends know real figures

horsewoman
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by horsewoman »

@bigato - we have been living semi-ER for almost a decade now and even this is hard for people to wrap their heads around.
HOW can a family of three plus a shitload of animals live on 2 part-time incomes? It is simply not possible! ;)

I tend to over-emphasize the "negative aspects" of our lifestyle, like driving cheap, old cars. Or living in a crumbling old house without central heating, wearing only second hand clothing and never going away on holidays. Of course to us this is not negative, but people can relate to that at least to some extent. We are of course not super well off because we more or less skipped the accumulation phase, so I do not have to lie about that.

But I suspect that some people believe we are selling drugs or something like that (we're not, if you want some you have to go elsewhere).

Sclass wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:55 pm
Funny I’ve recently drifted apart from a very interesting friend I made after he became wealthy. He cashed out of his startup for nine figures in USD. I honestly feel a little uncomfortable around him now. We still talk but our relationship has changed with his staggering net worth. We just live on different planets now. Totally different life problems. So maybe I’m a little guilty of the same thing.
Haha, I can totally understand that. I have an acquaintance who bought a small castle as a weekend hang-out. We met thorough a band project and kept in touch, but I can not talk to her for any length of time. I feed my family 2 months with the amount she spends on two antique candlesticks. Different planets, indeed.

ertyu
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by ertyu »

I plan to lie. I will say I work from home and I pick up jobs from fiverr and I subcontract for a translation company. I will not tell I worked abroad. I will tell my parents died and me and my brother sold the apartment and split the proceeds, which is how I bought Smaller Apartment in Midsize LCOL City. Basically, I will settle in a completely new town where no one knows me after FI. The part that worries me is that in a smaller town where I can afford to live, you can't really disappear in the crowd. I've gotten used to that during my years of working abroad. It feels surprisingly freeing. I am not looking forward to an environment where everyone is in your business, but that's what I can afford :/

GandK
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by GandK »

We have exactly one set of friends from pre-retirement days who walked through this journey with us, who we were open with about everything, and who we are still friends with. One. And they're a decade older than us, and were already retired. (This is all you need, if you're looking for support.) One night a week now, we buy a pizza and a bottle of wine, wherever we are, and we call and put them on speakerphone. We talk about life and laugh until we cry and feel sick.

Life is amazing.

We decided early on not to lie about our early retirement plans. It wouldn't have worked, anyway... when G was a lawyer who's so cheap he reuses toothpicks, and I'm a noticeable minimalist whose clothes all look the same, and we lived in hoity-toity-ville while saving... man did we stick out. We didn't tell many people what we were doing, but if questioned we didn't lie. Our faith provided cover for the eccentricity. We're practicing Christians, so pretty much everyone in the midwest wrote us off as borderline missionaries. That's still an acceptable and honorable thing to be seen as in the midwest, although I suspect it won't be in 20 years or so. One would have to move to Utah.

Since we pulled the plug, we continue to meet couple after couple that we'd gladly spend more time with. Not everyone! Definitely not most people. But at most places we go, there's one couple... usually the one off in the corner. This time it was that Canadian couple with three kids and twelve tattoos... we invited them to our fire, and what do you know? Husband built a tiny house all by himself, and now they summer up there and winter in Arizona, right where we are. And our boys are the same age and both being homeschooled, and we all hate the rat race... etc. How could we hook up with people like them by lying? I guess we don't have to anymore.

I'm still tempted to lie to my parents sometimes. They're the country club boomers you see on the news. They think we've gone around the bend and taken their grandchildren with us. So far ive resisted the temptation.

ertyu
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by ertyu »

GandK wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:02 am
We have exactly one set of friends from pre-retirement days who walked through this journey with us, who we were open with about everything, and who we are still friends with. One. And they're a decade older than us, and were already retired. (This is all you need, if you're looking for support.) One night a week now, we buy a pizza and a bottle of wine, wherever we are, and we call and put them on speakerphone. We talk about life and laugh until we cry and feel sick.

Life is amazing.

We decided early on not to lie about our early retirement plans. It wouldn't have worked, anyway... when G was a lawyer who's so cheap he reuses toothpicks, and I'm a noticeable minimalist whose clothes all look the same, and we lived in hoity-toity-ville while saving... man did we stick out. We didn't tell many people what we were doing, but if questioned we didn't lie. Our faith provided cover for the eccentricity. We're practicing Christians, so pretty much everyone in the midwest wrote us off as borderline missionaries. That's still an acceptable and honorable thing to be seen as in the midwest, although I suspect it won't be in 20 years or so. One would have to move to Utah.

Since we pulled the plug, we continue to meet couple after couple that we'd gladly spend more time with. Not everyone! Definitely not most people. But at most places we go, there's one couple... usually the one off in the corner. This time it was that Canadian couple with three kids and twelve tattoos... we invited them to our fire, and what do you know? Husband built a tiny house all by himself, and now they summer up there and winter in Arizona, right where we are. And our boys are the same age and both being homeschooled, and we all hate the rat race... etc. How could we hook up with people like them by lying? I guess we don't have to anymore.
Sounds wonderful, GK. Glad you guys have this. Your friends sound awesome - both the retired couple and the Canadians :)

Frita
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by Frita »

@Sclass
Nothing like moving or transitioning to non-mainstream lifestyle to lose friends. I am internalizing that they never liked me in the first place, just thought I was exactly like them (and needed that validation) or wanted something from me.

@Horsewoman
My spouse and I both worked part-time for three years. It boggled people’s minds. Lots of questions with different strategies to answer that would never satisfy most askers. Now that we no longer do paid work at all, those people tend to leave us alone.

@ertyu
Moving to a town of 45k, people know your business and make it up if they don’t. The economy is bad here so people tend to be self-protective under a veneer of community. We haven’t lied, nor been totally truthful (We tend to test the waters first.). We thought/hoped to have more in common with folks here and relate with some in a deeper way.

@GandK
Yea, I am so happy you have kept your long-time set of friends and made new ones too.

ertyu
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Re: Do you lie?

Post by ertyu »

Frita wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:23 pm

@ertyu
Moving to a town of 45k, people know your business and make it up if they don’t. The economy is bad here so people tend to be self-protective under a veneer of community. We haven’t lied, nor been totally truthful (We tend to test the waters first.). We thought/hoped to have more in common with folks here and relate with some in a deeper way.
That's the size I'm looking at. Also, developing country. Which is why lying will be necessary. Think of it from their point of view: if you're unemployed and the economy is bad, and you have a hard time providing for your children or you have a family emergency, would you hesitate to tap any means necessary to put food on the table? You won't give a fuck some stranger worked his back off to save 30x yearly expenses and is currently scrimping so the money will last. What you see is, this greedy fuck is hoarding so much money when so little would make such a difference to you, and if he's so rich and has such earnings potential, he can fucking go get another job. When necessity forces you into unethical behavior, it's way too easy to make the person you plan to steal from the bad guy so you can justify your choices. Being honest allows you to develop authentic relationships, like GK pointed out, but at the same time, authenticity is a luxury only available at a certain level of societal affluence.

Testing waters first is an imperfect safety system as people can sustain a long con for quite a while, but it's the best compromise.

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