Significant others: Having the talk ...

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
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TopHatFox
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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:29 am

I'd bail if there weren't kids already personally. She wants to work until she's 60 and is not ok with roommates? Working 5-20 years is better than sharing space with some probably nice people? Just the thought of kids would send me running for another haha.

But it's up to you. It's possible by slingin' the benefits rather than the money, you'll have much better luck.

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BlueNote
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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by BlueNote » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:23 am

@ Demosthenes

I don't know of too many people who will change habits and beliefs that have been built over years just because someone presented some verbal arguments to the contrary. Personally I'd just go ahead and live my life with FI as an objective with the hope, but not the expectation, that my mate will embrace the benefits when they see the direct evidence that it's possible. Working while FI is eminently better than being a dependent worker. You can find the best job out there and not have to worry so much about incentive caused bias that traps people in terrible work environments. That alone is worth it to me. The risk here is that the other side is against the FI lifestyle and leaves you for someone who is a better fit. I think finding a compatible spouse is like the 2nd most important decision in your life behind maybe health decisions. Your approaches to Religion, Politics and Money (those things you don't discuss in mixed company or some such) pretty much must fit with your spouses or you'll be in for a rough ride IMHO.

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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by Jason » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:18 pm

Lemur wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:38 pm
Spouse and I are pretty much in sync with our goals except she likes to eat out and make the occasional stop to McDonalds. I'm vehemently against fast food and eating out in general but it is a small price to pay for long-term marriage happiness I guess. What helped me spouse get on bored is realizing we can stretch our money much further in her home country so that is one of our plans in the future.
I think that's wise. Not just from a "happy wife, happy life" vantage point, but from a winning the battle, losing the war perspective. Taking away a small pleasure will make you appear legalistic and the entire process a killjoy. As long as the the principle is agreed upon, you need to allow for some practical inconsistencies. But to be transparent, I also happen to enjoy the occasional stop at McDonald's so this is really just an exercise in my trying to justify a personal inability to drive past those greedy, poisonous bastards' golden fucking arches. I swear Satan must have been at the conference table when they decided to make breakfast available at all fucking hours of the damn day.

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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by enigmaT120 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:01 pm

sausage egg mcmuffins taste gooood....

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Lemur
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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by Lemur » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm

Jason wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:18 pm
Lemur wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:38 pm
Spouse and I are pretty much in sync with our goals except she likes to eat out and make the occasional stop to McDonalds. I'm vehemently against fast food and eating out in general but it is a small price to pay for long-term marriage happiness I guess. What helped me spouse get on bored is realizing we can stretch our money much further in her home country so that is one of our plans in the future.
I think that's wise. Not just from a "happy wife, happy life" vantage point, but from a winning the battle, losing the war perspective. Taking away a small pleasure will make you appear legalistic and the entire process a killjoy. As long as the the principle is agreed upon, you need to allow for some practical inconsistencies. But to be transparent, I also happen to enjoy the occasional stop at McDonald's so this is really just an exercise in my trying to justify a personal inability to drive past those greedy, poisonous bastards' golden fucking arches. I swear Satan must have been at the conference table when they decided to make breakfast available at all fucking hours of the damn day.
Exactly my thoughts. In four years time, my spouse has significantly changed to align with a lot of my goals. I think the key was I didn't push it...she just noticed my habits over-time and started adopting them for herself. It helps when I can show her our investments and say 'look here, I made $400 this month doing nothing!". This changed from 'good for you' to 'how can I do this' over-time. What my spouse does better than me is start businesses. I'm too risk-adverse to start one myself but she is doing great right now with her own business at home.

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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by Jason » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:31 pm

That’s great about the businesses, especially if you have complimentary skill sets. There is absolutely no redundancy in my marriage. My wife is the type of person who will notice that a chalice is moved within a scene in Games of thrones and will call it unrealistic. Mind you this is show that features a woman flying on top of a fucking dragon but its at the point of a prop being moved that she identifies credibility issues. Sometimes it’s like my mind is asked to stop and turn in the other direction but for the most part it’s better when there are different applications operating within a shared philosophical system. Now I have to think about the way that last sentence came out because I know I never would have written anything like that before I read a 7W5 post.

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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by Clarice » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:41 pm

BlueNote wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:23 am


I don't know of too many people who will change habits and beliefs that have been built over years just because someone presented some verbal arguments to the contrary. Personally I'd just go ahead and live my life with FI as an objective with the hope, but not the expectation, that my mate will embrace the benefits when they see the direct evidence that it's possible. Working while FI is eminently better than being a dependent worker.
@BlueNote: I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of your statement. Verbal arguments do not work in situations like this. Nassim Taleb said something to the effect... "Losers win verbal arguments. Winners win." You just make it your goal and, unless your partner actively sabotages this goal, you'll get there. "FI is eminently better..." - ha-ha, I can tell you are a fellow NT... SJs that I observed (VERY closely) do not want to be free. They want to be bound... still not a fatal flaw if the person is good with money, at least in a conventional sense.

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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by jacob » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:13 am

@Clarice - It's more that SJs seek security. That security is found by surrounding themselves with conventions and structure that takes the form of jobs and stuff---both defining qualities of position. A FI target is conceivable, but it's conventional ("A million dollars") because that number defines another form of conventional security. NTs seek knowledge and exercise of competence, so the number is arbitrary. NTs will talk about freedom if they don't get to exercise competence or explore knowledge...otherwise "work is not so bad".

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BlueNote
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Re: Significant others: Having the talk ...

Post by BlueNote » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm

@Clarice

I'd bet lot's of money that this forum is heavily biased towards NT types , I'd also wager that the mode type is INTJ. My wife is SJ according to the test I administered on her. In fact my wife and best friend are both ESTJ types, both like to work in a traditional job a lot more than me which I think is largely a function of how their personality fits with the current work environment.

I think the Taleb quote is "There are two types of people: those who try to win and those who try to win arguments. They are never the same." a good quote. Another quote , and I forget who I got it from, is "What you demand you get, what you tolerate you encourage" so arguing and not taking any other action is like a form of tolerance IMHO. However by simply demanding FI from your self by pursuing it you can lead others because they can't easily ignore success. In fact they'll try to rationalize it and if they do a good job of that they'll generate and internalize they're own arguments which is better than simply adopting someone elses.

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