Dealing with jealousy/trust issues in a relationship

[Egg]

Call me paranoid, but with estimations of prevalence of cheating at around 25%, men and women alike, infidelity is a pretty significant minority pursuit. Sometimes it even gets totally ridiculous to the point where someone I know was cheated on, and the woman made him believe he was the father of her child for over a year before she admitted cheating and he demanded a DNA test. How do you guys in relationships deal with this?

I should expand on this question by saying I have no reason to believe that my current gf is cheating on me (although there are a couple of niggles such as her still being in facebook contact with her exes) but it's something which occupies my mind somewhat.

[GandK]

Let's start by separating jealousy, trust, and infidelity into three different buckets.

IMO, jealousy is the result of unmanaged fear, not necessarily of lack of trust. It is some people's gut-level response to the belief that their relationship is emotionally or sexually threatened. No amount of trust would make certain people less jealous. Other people can conquer it by addressing their fears head on and honestly. Usually when you bother to turn a light on, you see that the monster under your bed is a just pile of dirty laundry.

Trust is more nebulous. It requires communication and context. I trust my husband to pay the bills on time, I do not trust him not to gamble more than he intended if he goes to Vegas. So do I "trust him financially" or not? More important in the long run in a relationship, I think, is self trust. Do I trust myself to deal with whatever this person throws at me? Do I know I will be OK no matter what? Whenever the answer to that question is no for either partner, there's a problem. Maybe jealousy. Maybe worse.

And infidelity is a broken contract. If we agreed that neither of us would be intimate with other people, but you went and did it anyway, you unilaterally changed the terms of (and the condition of) our relationship. Now I must reevaluate the new situation and decide if I want to be in it. It broke trust, obviously. Does it cause jealousy? Probably, but not necessarily.

To answer the "how do you deal with it" piece... you communicate. A lot. Your wants and needs, and your partner's, will naturally change with time. Talking about who we're becoming is fun for G and me. I don't recommend waiting until relationship changes become a source of stress to do it, though.

[jacob]

Another solution: Read and internalize
http://www.amazon.com/How-Found-Freedom ... 00M20I134/

[zarathustra]

I'm with Harry Browne on this one; feeling jealousy in romantic relationships tends to be rooted in your own sense of insecurity about the level of compatibility in your relationship or it is rooted in your own insecurities in general (lack of confidence in attracting and keeping a mate). These problems with compatibility could be real or imagined and should be addressed with self-reflection and open communication.

I can also imagine someone worrying or obsessing too much about the possibility in a general sense (maybe you?) and then creating irrational fear.

I am also with Harry Browne in thinking it is irrational to believe anyone can fulfill me 100% or that I could fulfill someone else 100% and perhaps the key is recognizing that and accepting it (along with working on your own self-confidence) and maybe it would help with the small things at least regardless of what kind of arrangement you have with someone (monogamous or not).

I've never been a jealous person myself, but maybe it is because I figured if someone did cheat on me, then okay . . . why stay with that person if they obviously don't want to be with me anyway? No reason to be sad. I'm awesome, so you're dumb! . . . right? Heh. Doesn't always work out that easily, though.

However, the concept of monogamy is something I've been struggling with for a few years now except in the opposite way - I don't 'handle other people's jealousy well because it feels like infringing on my freedom. I usually walk away as soon as I see any of that kind of behavior.

I'd like to try open relationships this year actually. We'll see how much time I am willing to spend dating, though.

[zarathustra]

lol @jacob . . . exactly.

[jennypenny]

Another solution: Read and internalize
http://www.amazon.com/How-Found-Freedom ... 00M20I134/

That's the next book club selection.

[Peanut]

Ah, the cuckoo baby phenomenon? I've heard the incidence of cases where the biological father is not the assumed father runs as high as 10%. Incredible. That's a lot of unprotected sex by married women going on.

I read an article on Ashley Madison just the other day that women looking to stray often turn to their ex-bfs on Facebook. Not to make you paranoid! I think most women who do this just enjoy a little extra male attention. Or maybe they are genuinely just friends now although I never understood that idea.
But if it bothers you in general you could mention it. Is it ok for YOU to be in FB contact with your exes, for instance, or would she not like that?

@GandK: Interesting propositions. I always think infidelity is an act of cowardice as well as disrespect towards your partner. Divorce is legal. Why not ask for one if you want to sleep with someone else and you know s/he'll mind. Even easier if you're not married. I think some people just crave the illicit drama, as it enhances the sex.

[jacob]

@jp - Well, I have very many BC suggestions as long as I don't have to review anything!

[7Wannabe5]

Jealousy was a major factor (among others like I could barely tolerate the fact that he wouldn't even consider having chickens in the backyard and he was increasingly becoming less physically healthy than me due to bad attitude about aging and he was black and white pragmatic and I am shades of gray rational etc. etc.) in my recent break-up. My discomfort was due to the fact that my SO chose to maintain a significant friendship with the woman he dumped (with short-term overlap) to be with me. It took me a very long time to get straight in my own head about the matter because I had never previously experienced jealousy absent of envy. Jealousy-with-envy has a pretty easy cure. Jealousy without envy or even any rational belief in risk of sexual infidelity is confusing. Finally, I just decided that I am free to not like what I don't like in terms of behavior of any SO and took self-aware steps to make myself fall out of love with him. I'm not exactly ecstatic to find myself single again at 50 but I am quite confident it was the right call.

My likely quite biased point here being that sometimes feelings of jealousy are due purely to irrational fear that you need to totally own but sometimes there is some kind of power play going on. I mean, maybe if your feelings of jealousy cause you to engage in behavior such as clinging or stalking then that is one thing but if your feelings of jealousy cause you to think "Hey, there is something going on here that I don't appreciate. Maybe I should consider ending this relationship." then that is another thing? Like there should be one word for the kind or phase of jealousy that makes you react from a place of insecurity and another word for the kind or phase of jealousy that causes you to respond from a place of self-respect?

[7Wannabe5]

@Peanut- Recent study that attempted to correlate British surnames with Y-chromosome inheritance showed much lower evidence of cuckoo-babies than previously estimated but quite high incidence of illegitimate babies born to single women and fathered by already married men. Of course, this quite possibly has more to do with the power imbalance between the sexes historically than any innate tendencies. The fact that most women now work outside the home does seem to have evened the "playing" field. The milkman and the door-to-door vacuum sales man didn't really get that lucky that often.

[7Wannabe5]

zarathustra said: I'm with Harry Browne on this one; feeling jealousy in romantic relationships tends to be rooted in your own sense of insecurity about the level of compatibility in your relationship

Didn't see this before. Major "aha" moment for me if it is the case that jealousy can be caused by insecurity about incompatibility in realms that you don't value. For instance, you are on a bike ride with a group of people including your SO and his ex-whom-he-still-friends and you are in so much better shape than both of them that you leave them in the dust. So, in that sort of situation you might feel jealousy without envy because they are compatible due to being out of shape and mature in their behavior vs. you who is more in shape but chronically immature in your behavior?

[zarathustra]

zarathustra said: I'm with Harry Browne on this one; feeling jealousy in romantic relationships tends to be rooted in your own sense of insecurity about the level of compatibility in your relationship

Didn't see this before. Major "aha" moment for me if it is the case that jealousy can be caused by insecurity about incompatibility in realms that you don't value. For instance, you are on a bike ride with a group of people including your SO and his ex-whom-he-still-friends and you are in so much better shape than both of them that you leave them in the dust. So, in that sort of situation you might feel jealousy without envy because they are compatible due to being out of shape and mature in their behavior vs. you who is more in shape but chronically immature in your behavior?

Sure. Or, an example he gave in the book: He was dating a woman and they had an open relationship but he was experiencing a high amount of jealousy when she would go out with other men even though when they were together they had a good time. He realized that this jealousy had to do with his understanding that they were not actually all that compatible - he was much older, etc. He knew that they were not a match that would last and yet he felt jealous; he had a desire to keep her for himself. He realized this was ridiculous - why try to keep someone with you that may find a better match elsewhere? It's setting you both up for bad feelings in the end. He worked on his jealousy by imagining his worst fears about what she might be doing with these men and kept imagining it until it lost its power. He was able to enjoy the relationship for the good things it had until it no longer suited them anymore.

[Ego]

How do you guys in relationships deal with this?

It is a risk. How do we deal with any risk? Hedge.

If the goal is a committed relationship with a worthy companion then the hedge is to remove doubt of commitment to avoid the Prisoner's Dilemma.

http://www.spectacle.org/995/love.html

I find that mutual cooperation in marriage, and in other areas such as business, brings on a satisfaction almost chemical in intensity, a kind of high. When I look around and say that I am playing the cooperation card endlessly with others who are playing it with me, wife, family, coworkers, I am happy. I can look everyone in the eye, and need not be afraid to turn my back on anyone.

[7Wannabe5]

zarathustra said: He realized this was ridiculous - why try to keep someone with you that may find a better match elsewhere? It's setting you both up for bad feelings in the end.

Gotcha. Pretty much exactly the same/opposite conundrum I found myself in because my higher self knew it would be unfair to throw down the "her or me" gauntlet if I wasn't really sure I was willing to commit to caring for him in approaching decrepitude. His ex is a professional nurse, a year older than him, more similar waist to hip ratio and balding pattern as him ( so catty, what is wrong with me?- play nice) , willing to lend him significant sums of money at 2% for his real estate ventures and "like" every single comment he made on Facebook. Much more suitable for end-game toe-nail clipping detail than selfish, selfish, willful me.

Also, I recently bailed out of the passenger door of a truck he was driving when we started slipping backwards on an icy slope. So, I definitely failed the "person you would go to war with" trust fitness test (sigh.) My honest self-evaluation would reveal that in any situation where it is my judgment that a man is willing to go down with his ship, I am likely to scramble for the lifeboat with my babies. High risk getting involved with the likes of me.

[Dragline]

I find that mutual cooperation in marriage, and in other areas such as business, brings on a satisfaction almost chemical in intensity, a kind of high. When I look around and say that I am playing the cooperation card endlessly with others who are playing it with me, wife, family, coworkers, I am happy. I can look everyone in the eye, and need not be afraid to turn my back on anyone.

Marriage is like going into business together? Who would have thunk that?

[GandK]

Marriage is like going into business together? Who would have thunk that?

LOL. I think you just won the thread.

[Egg]

Wise words, all. Thanks especially GandK for breaking things down and Ego for the Prisoner's Dilemma perspective, which had never occurred to me before.

I read an article on Ashley Madison just the other day that women looking to stray often turn to their ex-bfs on Facebook. Not to make you paranoid! I think most women who do this just enjoy a little extra male attention. Or maybe they are genuinely just friends now although I never understood that idea.
But if it bothers you in general you could mention it. Is it ok for YOU to be in FB contact with your exes, for instance, or would she not like that?

Ha. I don't need anyone's help to be paranoid! I had already mentioned it though. She said she thought it was natural not to totally drop friendship with people you like as a person, even once the romantic element has left. I still think it's odd and feel uncomfortable about it because I know that romantic embers however dormant are prone to reignition, but tbf these are not guys she can stray with physically without me noticing as they live a thousand miles away in her native country. But no, she'd not have an issue with me being in contact with my exes.

It is an internal conflict, and I don't even know if I'm being rationally suspicious or just insecure. What counts as disrespectful?

[Ego]

What counts as disrespectful?

My culture considers it disrespectful to arrive late to an event. Mrs. Ego's culture considers it disrespectful to arrive on-time because, of course, the host is still getting ready. This caused quite a bit of chaos while we were dating. For our wedding we printed two sets of invitations with two different times in anticipation of the different attitudes. We didn't anticipate that the Mexicans would think it was a gringo wedding and be on time - an hour early - while the gringos figured it was a Mexican wedding and arrived late.

Disrespect is in the eye of the beholder. As our wedding shows, it is not easy to see the world from that other person's perspective.

[Chad]

@Ego
I can't tell you how much I hate the pseudo start time.

[Ego]

@Ego
I can't tell you how much I hate the pseudo start time.

Me too. My inability to adapt (after twentysome years) is probably responsible for about 1/3 of my posts here... while I kill time waiting.