Dealing with jealousy/trust issues in a relationship

[7Wannabe5]

What counts as disrespectful?

Well, for instance, it's okay to meet an ex-now-friend for coffee and conversation at a bookstore. It is not okay to take an ex-now-friend on a motorcycle ride followed by a picnic in the park. It is okay to make arrangements with an ex-now-friend to share the expense and work involved in arranging the marriage of a mutual child. It is not okay to still have your ex-now-friend on the deed to your primary residence and allow her to spend winters there when she is snowed out of her cabin (especially if she still keeps a picture of you in your football uniform age 20-something on her bureau.) It is okay to keep an ex-now-friend as your dentist. It is not okay to keep your ex-now-friend as your massage therapist. It is okay to send an ex-now-friend a Christmas card.It is not okay to send an ex-now-friend a valentine even just-to-be-funny.

These are some of my boundaries. YMMV.

[GandK]

What counts as disrespectful?

To me, this question can generally be reworded as, "Is your discomfort your problem, or is it mine? Which one of us should course correct?" The answer is usually "both" IME. First, both partners have a responsibility to unpack their own baggage instead of just handing it to their partner and saying, "Here. You deal with this. It hurts, and I'm tired of dealing with these issues, so you need to do these twelve things to compensate." This is the psychological equivalent of getting shot with an arrow, then spending the rest of your life avoiding, and expecting your spouse to avoid, the spot on your body where the arrow is (instead of removing it). It's ludicrous. You owe it to both of you to unpack your own baggage.

And both partners need to be sensitive while people are unpacking their crap, and not intentionally do things that make a difficult process more uncomfortable. As long as you are taking steps to deal with whatever has rendered you incapable of rational behavior, I think its my duty as your partner to help you stay as comfortable as possible. Even if it means not doing everything I want, or the way that I want, right now.

[7Wannabe5]

It's a matter of proportional reaction or response also. For instance, I once had the bone-chilling experience of having a man who was 6'5" and in possession of various martial skills say to me in dead serious tone "If you ever cheat on me, I will hunt you down." Even though cheating was not and never has been a behavior I have engaged in, I do not think that I would deserve to be "hunted down" if I ever did. Slightly different than my own behavior when on the opposite end which amounted to "If you ever cheat on me I will say a few unkind things and then hang up the phone on you. Cry, Mail the ring back to you. Never talk to you again if I can possibly avoid it. Move on."

[connie]

relationship just makes me sick! and more sick! :/

[TopHatFox]

How do you guys in relationships deal with [jealously and trust issues]?

I find partners that think spending time with other people--sexually or emotionally--is consensual and desirable. (:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/0 ... tionships/

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Most important is clear communication and understanding that jealously is simply another emotion that can be felt in human connection. It is a emotion that can be questioned and processed: "Feeling jealous? Okay, it' might be an indication of something making you uncomfortable: what's on your mind and how can we meet both our needs?"

[Dragline]

This is a fabulous podcast about the science behind relationships and infidelity:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2016/02/2 ... nfidelity/

[jennypenny]

That was really interesting, and surprising. The discussion at the beginning was a little disturbing since DH has been traveling for work for 20 years. It also made me wonder about a couple of the work wives he's had during that time.

I really liked the part about successful marriages being based on more than passionate love. I also liked where she suggested that infidelity can be seen as a mistake instead of automatically assuming it's a character flaw, and gave advice for mending the relationship afterward.

[Ego]

This is a fabulous podcast about the science behind relationships and infidelity:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2016/02/2 ... nfidelity/

This should be required listening for everyone in a relationship. Very, very good. Conclusions based on research. She is brutally honest. You could almost feel the discomfort of the host.

I would imagine that since most of us here are not immediate-gratification junkies we would be less inclined to make these "mistakes". On the other hand, self-control is a limited resource so it might be true that using it in the financial realm might make one more likely to indulge in other areas.

Either way, she did a good job of putting current-me into future-me's head if I were to stray. Not a place I want to be.

[7Wannabe5]

Warning. The following may be purely anecdotal. Generally women initiate divorces more often than men, but every single instance I know of personally in which it was the man who clearly unilaterally initiated the divorce after many years of marriage, he was an INTJ or something very close to that type. In about half of these instances, he had already started a relationship with another woman. So, it's not like random, impulsive cheating that INTJ's do. They just suddenly (at least from the perspective of the partner left in the dust) make a different decision about who should be their long-term partner. But, prior to that sudden rational decision, they seem to be completely reliable, so their exes are shocked and baffled when it happens.

[Dragline]

Yeah, when I was listening to it, I was kind of thinking that I wish I had known about all this in my twenties -- and that I got really lucky with who I ended up marrying.

[jennypenny]

You could almost feel the discomfort of the host.

Brett is Mormon, and on some topics I occasionally sense he's choosing his words very carefully or deciding whether he wants to 'go there' with a particular topic.

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Were we really just lucky in who we picked for partners? That's a little scary, honestly. I wish there was more research on topics like arranged marriages. She mentioned in the podcast that people in those marriages were happier.* Is it just a question of expectations? (isn't there another thread on that?) Is it the willingness to marry for more than romantic notions? Or possessing enough 'grit' to plow through the tough times without quitting?

*My guess is we'll never see much research on that topic. Most research is done by academia, who generally view arranged marriages as anachronistic and unfair to women. The last thing they'd be interested in proving is that arranged marriages can be--and often are--successful.

[Ego]

Were we really just lucky in who we picked for partners? That's a little scary, honestly.

This is something Mrs. Ego and I talk about regularly. What is it that made us value the relationship above everything else when others put different priorities first? Where did the relational-grit come from and why do we both have it?

*My guess is we'll never see much research on that topic. Most research is done by academia, who generally view arranged marriages as anachronistic and unfair to women. The last thing they'd be interested in proving is that arranged marriages can be--and often are--successful.

Well, there is the selection bias. Arranged marriages are the norm in places where there are extremely high costs for failed marriages. The societal pressure to make a bad match work can get ugly.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26356373

[7Wannabe5]

Another reason why arranged marriages are often successful is that marital success is highly correlated with lack of prior sexual experience for both partners. Most people really like sex and if your only association with sex is marriage then you will probably like being married too. I've read some really lovely romantic memoirs written by Muslims who were both virgins at the time of marriage. Also, prior divorce is correlated with likelihood of future divorce. From my perspective, one of the truest things written on the topic was the quote "Marriage is for amateurs" from "An Old Mistresses Advice to a Young Wife." This is also true in the sense that there is no good enough reason to do it except for "the love" of it. Of course, as with many things, "beginners eyes" may serve as well as true innocence. My ex-mother-in-law met her last partner when she was in her late 50s and he was in his late 70s. He was a widower who had been married to the same woman since he was around 20. One thing he said to my MIL was "I didn't know it was possible to be so in love with two different women in the same lifetime."

[Ego]

This is also true in the sense that there is no good enough reason to do it except for "the love" of it.

Can't let that one sneak by...

Really? No good reason?

[George the original one]

> One thing he said to my MIL was "I didn't know it was possible to be so in love with two different women in the same lifetime."

I guess that's where I have it easy. Finding a woman to love was easy enough, but choosing the right one to marry was much harder.

[7Wannabe5]

Ego said: Really? No good reason?

Well, it is my opinion that although success is not simply a matter of luck, marriage is an enterprise in which you are in no way guaranteed success through the use of good judgment and/or the exercise of good practice. Over 40% end in divorce, and a good percentage of those that do not end in divorce have at least one participant whose condition might be better described as "happy although married." Therefore, you may as well follow your heart and hope for the best.