My parents announce TARP for siblings

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
steelerfan
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by steelerfan »

Sadly this is not all that uncommon. Parents dole out support in an uneven fashion sometimes. My wife has 3 siblings. As the youngest her mom taught her to be independent and not to need anyone. The one time we asked for money was when we got married. They balked at this request so we eloped and got married in private. That act drove a wedge as she demonstrated she was not beholden to them. As a result our relationship is more as equals while the older kids are still dependent. It really has worked out because it is easy to not be guilted into doing anything we don’t want to.

In contrast her oldest two siblings have needed constant support whether it is cosigning for a loan or gifting down payment money because it they are at that stage when they “need” a house or letting one come back home and live rent free for a short time that turns into three years. They are dependent to this day. All three of the other siblings getting assistance have filed bankruptcy. My inlaws are still working at about eighty years old. I presume the money well has dried up.

We are much happier and really get along fine with all of them though. The freedom of not being dependent has made all the difference.

Scott 2
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Scott 2 »

Reliance upon parental support carries a huge burden, even worse than living paycheck to paycheck. You'll see it as this plays out.

Relish your freedom. Take pride in your strength. Accept the financial antics as one of your family's quirks and do your best to enjoy the limited time you have with them.

Seeking some sort of revenge, or even just trying to hold it over everyone, is a waste of your energy. IMO it would demonstrate you are still seeking their acceptance or approval, and throwing a tantrum over not having it. That puts power over your life into their hands, and is exactly the type of reaction being sought. It's a game you cannot win, so refuse to play.

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Sclass
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Sclass »

My parents aren't being rational. Who says mom and dad are always right? I am ok with it. For the record, it isn't the money, the perceived love or favoritism that irks me. It's the fact that these schmucks that used my misfortune to boost their self esteem for twenty years don't get what they deserve. They get the opposite, even Steven. It's like playing a great chess game where you've strategically set up your opponent by feigning weakness and just when you're ready to spring the trap and mate, RRRRRIIIIIINNNNGGG! Fire alarm went off match is cancelled! All games declared a draw.

I personally don't like handouts. I've always tried to make it on my own steam. Handouts are kind of like welfare.

We are certainly a bunch of black sheep here. If not in our families then in our societies.

saving-10-years
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by saving-10-years »

@Sclass I don't think that anyone here is reading this as a draw match.

You were *clearly* winning so a boost has been applied to avoid the most obvious outcome and prolong the 'game'. Unless the other players have improved their game this will probably only be of short-term benefit. They could start playing like you do, but how likely is that?
Last edited by saving-10-years on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

workathome
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by workathome »

It sounds like you weren't really expecting to get a cut of this money, but instead are mostly hurt by lack of recognition and confirmation from people you care about. If they were just friends, I would find new ones, but because they are family perhaps you can transmute your anger to genuine concern - if anything, this will make your siblings less capable of managing their finances instead of learning from their mistakes. Your father things he's doing well, but he's making a mistake.

wheatstate
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by wheatstate »

S-Class, congrats on forging your own path. You are talking with your dad as a peer. Your siblings are still children.

Is your father a betting man?....
If so, you should bet him how quickly your siblings will spend the money.
If he wins and the siblings live within their means, you give him a small luxury, he gets to be "right" and you get FI siblings for the future.

If the siblings continue their lavish lifestyle and waste the money, you get a significant share of what the other siblings get.

This bet could be a good challenge to your father that the money will disappear quickly.

Good luck and keep playing your winning hand.

chicago81
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by chicago81 »

I have quite a different scenario with my parents and sibling. My sister and brother-in-law aren't terrible at managing their finances. But they have deliberately made career choices that result in fairly low incomes. I don't think they are living "very" far beyond their means, but they aren't really able to save any money, so they rely on my parents when "emergencies" or large "one time expenses" come up (stuff like car repairs, their wedding, and my parents did pay for a percentage of my sister's college expenses.)

I have not received any "economic outpatient care" from my parents since "leaving the nest". However, whenever I travel to see my parents, they remind me what the "running total is" for how much $XX thousands of dollars they've helped my sister, and are expecting for the amount to be "made up to me" when they pass away and the assets are divided up. I think they have even gone as far as to put this into their will. I have made it clear to them on several occasions that it did not matter to me one way or another, and that if they wanted to help out my sister and brother-in-law, that it was their money and their choice to do whatever they want.

I suppose that this situation is very different than the original poster's situation, simply because of how it seems that your parents want to be able to maintain a certain aspect of "control" over the relationships within your family. That is very sad and unfortunate.

ohcanada
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by ohcanada »

We'll at least you don't have the reverse. My mom is often begging for money from us because she is extremely in debt and has managed finances horribly her entire life, living payday loan to payday loan and off handouts from family members.

Felix
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Felix »

This treatment sucks. But from what I gather there has been something growing for quite some time. Your attitude seems to be one of wanting your siblings to fail so you could show that you were right. Now, with the bailout, you may not have had the malevolent retribution you wanted, but all your points were validated in a way. Your parents, through their actions, have accepted that you were right all along, that you are going to do fine no matter what and that your siblings can't make it on their own. While the way they do it is bad (doesn't harm you, though), I guess many people never get that strong a confirmation of their position from their parents or family in any form. And now, as others have pointed out, you won't have to take anyone's shit anymore. In a sense, this was an act of capitulation. You were right and they all accept it now.

If you want to repay their smugness with interest is up to you. :D

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Dream of Freedom
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Dream of Freedom »

Do you really want to screw with him? Tell him how much you love the idea. "You know dad, I was a bit pissed at first, but the more I thought about it the more I like it. My sis and bro will have to kiss so much butt and for what? You don't get fi just by having a lot of money. You get it by deciding what it is you really want and buying those things. You let the rest slide. They never did understood what they want, so they want everything. No amount will buy them everything. They get fake FI and I get to watch bro get humiliated more cause daddy didn't think he could do it himself. This is too good."

arrrrgon
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by arrrrgon »

Man, we've got some angry people on this forum :D

I see this opportunity differently from many of you. Obviously it's hurtful for your parents to act this way, but you now have a choice. You can choose to mend the relationship with your brother and sister and help them to understand how FI works and how they should deal with this money. The other option is to watch them crash and burn (which is inevitable without your knowledge unless the money is put into a trust or something).

It's really your choice sclass. I realize they could choose not to listen to you, but that would also be their choice.

At the end of the day they're still your family, so unless they've done something to hurt you irreparably (my grandma has done this with our family) maybe you should think about how your knowledge can help them.

before45
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by before45 »

Sounds like a very painful situation, with all sorts of passive aggression being added by your dad.

But it sounds like what's painful is not so much what happens to the money as why. I find my feelings about the same result can be massively different depending on whether it was my choice or not. For instance, I recently told my folks that I am FI and expect nothing from their estates, and that they should feel free to leave everything to my sister, because she is not good with money and will need it, and I don't need it, and I don't want to have to support her in her poor old age :-)

So I got the same result as you did, but I felt awesome because it was my choice. I know this wasn't your choice, but maybe you can consider that if it had been up to you, you might've chosen the same result you got--to let your sibs have your parents' money because you don't need it. You might even re-write the conversation in your head. I am a big fan of (safe) self-delusion for the sake of happiness when necessary, if that makes sense.

SimpleLife
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by SimpleLife »

First off, let me say it is perfectly reasonable for you to be very upset by this. If I was in your shoes, I would be LIVID!

The sad fact of the matter is, corporations, parents, government, and society as a whole rewards stupidity and laziness (no offense to your family, just talking in general) while punishing intelligence, self discipline, and hard work. Smile, people love morons is true!

As another poster said, I'm certain your siblings will piss that money away in no time.

JamesR
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by JamesR »

Sclass,

"son I cannot have you having so much more than your older brother. It is hard for him to accept it. He walks around not respecting himself. His wife doesn't even respect him now"

This comes across as very non-western culture thinking to me. Or a complete BS excuse.

GandK
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by GandK »

Late to the party here...

Honestly, I'd be pissed, too. And it would be hard to swallow. And I'd resent my family. And it would feel to me like I paid my dues and my siblings didn't. And the thing that would piss me off most is that you did without so many things to get where you are, and now they're at the same place without ever making sacrifices.

Sidenote: And how the hell your dad thinks that him bestowing money on your brother will make your brother's wife suddenly respect him more is inconceivable to me.

The good side is that LBYM - and being happy with it - is a skill. You have it. They don't. They'll be happy for a while, I'm sure, and use this as yet another opportunity to feel superior.

But that will wear off.

I'd also go the Dream of Freedom route and thank Dad. He has a horrible way of showing it, but what he basically said is that he thinks you're strong and he thinks they're weak. I'd acknowledge that in conversation.

Seneca
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Seneca »

wheatstate wrote:S-Class, congrats on forging your own path. You are talking with your dad as a peer. Your siblings are still children.
Is your father a betting man?....
If so, you should bet him how quickly your siblings will spend the money.
If he wins and the siblings live within their means, you give him a small luxury, he gets to be "right" and you get FI siblings for the future.

If the siblings continue their lavish lifestyle and waste the money, you get a significant share of what the other siblings get.

This bet could be a good challenge to your father that the money will disappear quickly.

Good luck and keep playing your winning hand.
Great post, this has been my solace when having feelings like Sclass.
JamesR wrote:Sclass,

"son I cannot have you having so much more than your older brother. It is hard for him to accept it. He walks around not respecting himself. His wife doesn't even respect him now"

This comes across as very non-western culture thinking to me. Or a complete BS excuse.
I think this S-class's parents are doing exactly what we do in larger society with money in western cultures.

GandK
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by GandK »

Seneca wrote:I think this S-class's parents are doing exactly what we do in larger society with money in western cultures.
Me too. Everybody gets a trophy.

SkaraBrae
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by SkaraBrae »

steelerfan wrote:Parents dole out support in an uneven fashion sometimes. My wife has 3 siblings. As the youngest her mom taught her to be independent and not to need anyone. The one time we asked for money was when we got married. They balked at this request so we eloped and got married in private. That act drove a wedge as she demonstrated she was not beholden to them. As a result our relationship is more as equals while the older kids are still dependent. It really has worked out because it is easy to not be guilted into doing anything we don’t want to.
Quoted for truth on all levels. My parents at first refused to provide me economic outpatient care when I requested it (I was young and dumb). I took a "fine, eff you then, I'll do it myself" attitude and have done pretty good by it. Later they would occasionally try to pay for stuff as a means of control, which I put a quick end to.

They didn't like that independence, so they coddled my younger sister instead. It continues to this day. Naturally, now my mom wants to give my sister twice the inheritance she wants to give me. And also have me be executrix of the will. I declined.

Andy Dufresne
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Andy Dufresne »

SClass,

I was browsing through old forum posts and lucked into this thread. It made me think about my own family situation (spoiler - too many parallels to make for a pleasant conversation). However, since its roughly 7 years ago, and since in The Millionaire Next Door they show pretty clearly that economic aid to children does nothing for them, I am wondering (if I may be so bold) - did these lump sums help your siblings get their financial life in order or did they just spend it/squander it?

Much appreciation for your candor and your writing style!

Andy

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Lemur
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Lemur »

Interesting follow-up...

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