My parents announce TARP for siblings

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
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Sclass
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My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Sclass »

It has been a long long weekend. Last weekend mom and dad announced that they will help my older siblings retire with lump sums. Me, I get nothing because I don't need it. I feel sick.

I wrote some long posts about this charged with emotion. I deleted them and spared y'all. Bottom line, dad has been observing me the last year. I explained the math and he was impressed. He was so fascinated he said he had to fast track my consumerist sister and brother to retirement. His reasoning was it was not fair that they are so much older and that they cannot retire. He said my brother could die in the office.

Me nothing. That's right. But it gets worse. He based the lump sums on MY net worth. "son I cannot have you having so much more than your older brother. It is hard for him to accept it. He walks around not respecting himself. His wife doesn't even respect him now". This is the same wife that laughed at us for being poor over the years.

So the playing field was leveled. Dad and mom playing god. I'm bummed. I am spiteful for all the years of humiliation I had to take from them. I know I should be bigger than that and not care but it's tough to see these smug sinners partying up till judgement day then getting a pass. The lesson, never ever tell your family what you're doing. Just like all the posts say. I know. My ego got the best of me.

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jennypenny
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by jennypenny »

I think you're handling it REALLY well. Feel free to vent. Say inappropriate things. People here will understand and won't hold it against you.

Does your dad realize that if your siblings didn't know how to achieve FI, they won't know how to stay FI? What is he going to do when they've spent all of the money??

llorona
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by llorona »

Wow. Sorry to hear that - it must feel like a kick in the stomach. Urgh.

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Ego
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Ego »

Geez... that sucks....

It is also the ultimate compliment a parent could give. They know you can stand on your own feet. They know you are resourceful, smart, and capable. They know at least with one kid they did what they were supposed to do as parents.... make him self-sufficient.

Sure, it is unfair and foolish. Not only does it show the high opinion they have for you, it shows without question the opposite for your brother and sister.

Edit:
It sucks for you because they ended up getting your share of free money.
It sucks for them because you got something they didn't, something more valuable than money. Something that can only be earned. You got respect.
Last edited by Ego on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sclass
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Sclass »

Dad set up the lump into a mix of investments. It isn't cash but throws off enough for them to exit. He literally based it off the minimum required numbers I presented to him. What they will actually do with the lump is unknown. I had an 500 mile drive home this week to think it over thousands of times.

I can get upset and I am but I really need to focus on my own game. I guess I should be happy that I was able to have some influence over their misguided philosophy work to live. Sometimes I forget that is what the other half of this forum is about.

I'm okay. Mostly I feel bad that I was hoping to see their judgement day. Kind of schadenfreude I guess. I should be happy my folks have the means to support their adult children (yuck!).

Yeah Ego it's a compliment. I don't want to trade places with them.

Tyler9000
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Tyler9000 »

Sorry Sclass. That sucks. Those good with money often get shortchanged by others whose sole measure of fairness is denominated in dollars.

I admire your accomplishment, and believe that eventually your attitude towards money and life will be properly recognized.

My one piece of advice is to use this opportunity to no longer take any crap from your siblings and sister in law. With all the cards on the table, there's no reason left for you to grin and bear it. You're clearly the financial alpha among the siblings. ; )

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Sclass
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Sclass »

Ego wrote:Geez... that sucks....

Edit:
It sucks for you because they ended up getting your share of free money.
.
Whoa, that money isn't free. One of the reasons things happened this way is I am the black sheep of the family. I'm not telling the whole story here well, because it is long and boring and I may get outed. Bottom line, there were things I could have done to be a kept man, but I refused the strings everytime and that is one of the reasons I had to live frugally and invest aggressively.

I bragged too much about how my siblings sucked up to the family and became whores while I independently (look dad ain't I smart? I don't need to listen to ya) became FI and thumbed my nose at the authority. So my father in some senses is trying to show me what happens when a kid doesn't obey. Also, he sincerely thinks my attitude humiliated my brother.

Nothing is free. Money or promised money from parents is not. I chose not to toe the line and I gambled on myself so I could be free.

Edit - I am going to go and photograph/post my EDC items now and feel happy.

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Ego
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Ego »

Good point. Very true. It ain't free. We did something very similar (blacksheepwise) and take great pride in the fact that every penny we spend, we earned ourselves.

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jennypenny
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by jennypenny »

I still think it sucks. From what you describe, it's not even about the money. Be glad they can't hold anything over you.

Dragline
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Dragline »

Now is time to vent. Vent early. Vent often. In the right venue, like this one. You deserve empathy.

Long term, two options: (1) Forget about it. It's better to pretend other people did not exist, especially family, when considering one's own financial situation (call this the "Stoic Option'); (2) get a good lawyer when (or ideally before) your parents succumb. What they have done is effectively an advance on the inheritance of the other siblings, which may be deducted from their fair share in the end, depending on the law in the jurisdiction where they live (call this the "Fuck you, pay me Option". See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3bhh8fqYs)


(1) is actually the more healthy option if you want to enjoy life, although you ought to explore (2) to satisfy yourself that you are not missing out on something you really care about it. Which is going to be the fundamental question.

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Sclass
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Sclass »

Thanks for the advice. I'll take 1. Forget it.

I've got bigger fish to fry.

I guess the part that is most interesting is how my dad glommed on to the ERE concepts and took my siblings' retirement into his own hands. The basics really rang true with him and he seemed intent on rescuing his kids from toiling.

I actually feel ok now. I think I'm going to have some pizza and beer.

The Old Man
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by The Old Man »

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Grave-revi ... 0060936312

Most ERE folks will have substantial assets when they die. So, start thinking about what your legacy will do for your children. See link above.

A dispute over inheritance rights was the direct cause of The Hundred Years War (1337-1453).

Generally, in the United States children have no right to inherit anything from their parents; although, most states have laws to protect against accidental disinheritance.

5to9
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by 5to9 »

My take on ERE is that the pile of cash is maybe 25% of what it takes to be FI. Without the skills developed along the way, I don't think one can be truly FI. You can't have a SWR without knowing and managing your expenses. You can't successfully manage a pile of cash without learning about the world of investing. And most importantly, you can't be FI without the independence and self sufficiency that it takes to get there on your own.

So maybe they got a pile of cash that you have every right to be upset about, and maybe they'll even get it to last for a while. But in my opinion, there's no fast track to FI. Countless studies of lottery winners have shown that big lump sums tend to disappear.

(And a side note, if your dad thinks that getting a handout from a parent is going to *improve* your brother's self esteem, I think he doesn't really understand how that works.)

lilacorchid
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by lilacorchid »

bigato wrote:But it is now time for you to grab popcorn and watch as they burn through their money like there was no tomorrow. Rest assured that, being like you tell they are, soon they will have nothing remaining. Judgment day is yet to come. If it was me in your position, I would only hope that my father would still be alive and well to see it happen. Yes, I am bad.
Well, then I'm an a-hole too. :twisted:

I am going to be punished for my sister's lack of ability to handle money too, but not nearly as bad as you are being punished. Try to take comfort in the fact that you are self made. That's much better than they are. And I would not be surprised if they are back to work at some point after draining all the money too.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

I will be the lone dissenting voice of irrational vengeance. I agree it's not about the money. It's about the attitude. I would pursue Dragline's option number 2 and sue for my full share of the inheritance, preferably before parents die so they can see it and reap the pain and division they've sown--then if I won, I would donate every penny of the proceeds, preferably to a cause my parents/siblings despised, and make sure dear brother and sister were well aware of the donation too. Then I would offer a smile and a one-fingered salute and happily cut all contact.

I have a deep respect for everyone advocating moving on. But in this situation, which has evidently been festering a while, I honestly doubt I would be able to do that; not without a fight. Watching the siblings inevitably squander the money would not be satisfying enough to me. This is a pretty big "fuck you", and I've never gotten over the compulsion to say "fuck you" right back, even bigger.

But then I'm a pretty inhuman son of a bitch, so YMMV.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Also, at an absolute minimum, this:
My one piece of advice is to use this opportunity to no longer take any crap from your siblings and sister in law. With all the cards on the table, there's no reason left for you to grin and bear it. You're clearly the financial alpha among the siblings. ; )
If I'd been eating crap about ERE all my life and this happened, you can bet these siblings would never say another word without hearing about the handouts that saved their dumb hand-to-mouth asses from death in a cubicle.

saving-10-years
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by saving-10-years »

I suspect that lots of us on the ERE forums are living lives that may not be what our parents had in mind. Our siblings may be nearer to toeing the line than we are. So this is sounding like a high cost of being a black sheep. So have maximum fun being that black sheep.

I agree with @ffj
I decided long ago that I had no right to others money, even my parents.


Its hard to dissassociate control from this type of handout, especially when a parent is involved and has some agenda to teach a lesson. You don't want that yoke on your neck. Which is entirely to your credit. I too am failing to see how this will redeem your brother's self-esteem.

The Old Man
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by The Old Man »

I am finding this completely bizarre. In general with certain rare exceptions children have no right to expect to inherit anything from their parents. The only obligation a parent has is to support and raise a child to age eighteen. After that a parent can kick a child out the door; the child is old enough to take care of themselves at that point.

So your parents are helping your siblings – great. Would you rather that your father spent the money on booze, cocaine, poker, and a young hot babe?

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Not to speak for the OP, but to me this is not about the money itself. My understanding of this is that the inheritance decision is a deliberate punishment for not conforming to parents' expectations, combined with years of abuse from siblings and parents for said nonconformity. After all that, the parents basically admit OP was right all along and give his siblings the same thing OP actually worked for.

Personally, I fully expect to receive nothing from inheritance as my parents are Spendy McSpendersons. That hardly concerns me. On the other hand, if they had money and decided they were leaving it all to my sister and nothing to me because I wasn't enough of a McSpenderson, I would be rather miffed. It's hard not to take that personally.

Ironically, yeah, I wouldn't care if the money were spent on booze, etc. It's the picking winners that's offensive. Like someone else said, this is the kind of thing that tears families apart. Surely that's obvious to OP's folks too. I'm sorry, but you have to be a pretty big asshole to screw one child in particular out of your inheritance, for whatever reason.

After my posts above, I wondered if I was being too harsh and just woke up on the wrong side of the bed--probably. But it is an infuriating situation, and not just because of the money. "They're allowed to do what they want with their own money". But I'm allowed to think they're assholes for it.

Sorry to OP if this post is off-base (or hits too close to home).

archi
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Re: My parents announce TARP for siblings

Post by archi »

@SClass, If I understand correctly your father intends to give your older brother and sister a sum of money similar of what you have accumulated by yourself.

In my opinion, this will not really help their self esteem: "look, I give you a similar sum of money as the one your smarter brother was able to accumulate all by himself. "

I don't want to be insulting or anything but the way your father is acting is... quite strange, to say it kindly:

- He deprives one of his children, the one that is capable of managing money, from inheritance, making him mad at him
- He gives the others a sum of money. Implicit message: "you cannot handle yourselves like your brother did. I will give you money because you cannot take care of yourselves". A message most child would find insulting, even if it comes with a big check.
- "Please love daddy because he gives you money". ==> Most parents don't need to buy the love of their children.

To summarize, he is acting badly to you but also to them. He is also dividing his children to make sure he can control them. He excludes you because he lost control when you reached FI.

Don't be too sad. In this situation you look like the only adult person.

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