Do you have kids or plan to ?

[Dragline]

@ altoid -- re health insurance, we do a high deductible plan with an HSA. You get to put much more in an HSA if you have kids.

[before45]

I don't have kids and don't plan on having them. (I'm a woman in my early 40s.) I've thought about this a lot. I am very concerned about over-population and global warming, so I think that people (especially first-world people) should only have children if they really want them (and then, only 2, but that's just my opinion; I'm not ready to go China on this).
When I think about having children myself, I realize that to be brutally honest, the scenarios that attract me are totally idealized: sure it sounds nice to have great healthy kids that I'll like as well as love and will have a good relationship with and will be self-supporting and care for me in my old age. But when I thought about all the people I know who don't really like their kids (if only because they don't have much in common), or their kids don't like them, or their kids are still living off them as adults, or their kids are disabled, or their kids have died before them, or their kids live far away and hardly ever visit, etc., etc. . . . I realized that I would be deeply unhappy in those scenarios, and that I didn't think I should have kids unless I felt confident that I would love them and be happy with my decision no matter what. And I don't feel confident at all about that. I'm just not that good a person.
Also, I know a lot of older people, and when they are in need some are cared for by children, some by spouses, some by friends, some by church members, some by institutions. I think our society will be changing a lot in the future to reflect that kids often can't be the answer to the problems of old age. One thing I do know is that if you want kids primarily to have them around and helpful in your old age you better have a back-up plan just like people without kids.
I just want to express my gratitude for those who want kids and are willing to do the work to raise them, because I do want humanity to continue! And I do feel that those of us without kids should be contributing to their education and health, etc., for that reason. And because today's kids determine the world I'll be living in in the future.

[grendel]

my partner and I have 1 young child and would welcome other(s) should we be fortunate enough to receive more. Our daughter brings immeasurable joy that I cannot express. Maybe I should also add that we are not currently on a path to financial independence. Although I would like to be, it is not my primary concern. I have the upmost respect for everyone's choices regarding having kids; we are grateful for the opportunity to be present in our daughter's life.

[Marius]

I'm the proud father of a nine year old vasectomy.
Raising kids is a lot of work and I don't like work, which is why I'm here. Also, I like silence, a lot.

[VanishingPoint]

I have 2 daughters ages 8 and 6. A truly magical time when they are old enough to be able to really relate to and not yet old enough to be anything but innocent. I see bits of myself in both of them. One is very headstrong and the other is timid of the unknown.

Wouldn't change a thing if I had the choice to do it all over. Financial burden be damned.

[WorkingWageWealth]

Er...no. But the decision isn't (wasn't financial). I just don't think you "should" have children unless you want them. Currently, I don't want them.

[altoid]

Here is how I look at kids: They are like a very expensive car in a way that, most people will like it once you try it. But people don't crave for it before they have a taste in it. Maybe car is a bad example.... The point is, child free people might just not have enough experience in kids, and also this explains why parents don't stop at having only one kid?

I also would like to defend China on this subject: China has a one child policy! So China is really helping this planet by reducing its future population. It is ironic that people on one hand will criticize China's one child policy as human right invasion, and on the other hand, never hesitate to point fingers at China when we talk about population.

Last: Not having kids is a harder decision, than to have them. After all, to eat and to reproduce is two basic instinct for any living creatures.

[workathome]

One child, and it would a blessing to have more.

[JohnnyH]

I'm a little depressed by the all the no kids in here... This is exactly the group that would produce some great people, IMO.

Thinking about this a lot recently, kind of got the ultimatum from current GF... I'm worried her genes aren't good enough for my kids (no one in her family is exceptionally smart, athletic, healthy, tall). OTOH, I love her and find her incredibly sexy. Smart kids (inherent most from Mom according to articles[?]) or good sex for me?... lol, please let her never read that!

The planning I want to put into having kids is intimidating and likely not feasible on the current time frame... I'm going to be such a diet tyrant when she's pregnant. I hope all that Mozart on the fetus talk is nonsense because it seems a really stupid thing to do.

Kids are a huge sacrifice when you're young, I'm still coming to terms with the possibility I will never do anything I saw myself doing when I was young (expat, hiking continental divide, learning several languages, be a playboy in Brazil... retire )

OTOH, I look at the lives of people of traditional retirement age and think retirees with adult children have much fuller, more interesting lives... IMO many of the 50+ year olds I see without children lead rather depressing and empty lives in comparison.

[workathome]

It's amazing how depending on your level of intelligence, responsibility, and awareness, having kids can seem incredibly complex and a difficult decision, or require literally no thought beyond a basic instinctive sex drive. All the forum members lean very heavily towards the first case, to the point of undoing the potential for procreation through intelligent decision making. I wonder how that factors into evolutionary theory? Is being too smart, or smart the wrong (right?) way detrimental to long-term genetic preservation?

Unfortunately, I think it makes a good case for "Idiocracy" being highly predictive, not a comedic warning.

[altoid]

@JohnnyH, I also had a lot of thoughts on this subject recently. My friends are popping kids out left and right, and almost everyone in my real life suggested to have them, otherwise I will regret later in life. I guess kids just add another dimension in life, to have another human being deeply connected with you. And my biggest fear is loneliness, physical and psychological. My mom had once told me , after my dad passed away, she would have nothing to live for if not for my brother and me. She is from a big family with six siblings.

So that aspect does scare me, and make me wonder if all the hard work now will eventually become worthwhile.

[workathome]

My personal inclination was towards delaying children, but at this point I think it is the most important think I've done. This isn't a logical conclusion so much as an emotional joy I feel daily. Life feels more meaningful as well.

[jacob]

@JohnnyH, I also had a lot of thoughts on this subject recently. My friends are popping kids out left and right, and almost everyone in my real life suggested to have them, otherwise I will regret later in life.

Isn't it better to not have children and regret not having them, than to have children and regret having them?

[altoid]

@Jacob, yes, I would say it is better not have children and regret not having them, than the opposite. However, statistically speaking, the probability of each happening is different, right ? How many parents regret of having kids? I personally have not met any, not sure they are all happy as they claimed, or they are just convincing themselves they are, on this irreversible decision?

[jacob]

@altoid -

Well, statistically speaking ... parents tend to be more depressed than non-parents
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news ... ss-parents
and childcare/parenting seems to rank right above the evening commute in terms of happiness impact http://www.scribd.com/doc/7095097/Kahne ... counts-AER (see table 2). Here's the bottom (worst) of the table for quick reference

... housework, childcare, evening commute, work, morning commute.

And here's a more realistic take on it
http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/01/do-chi ... or-misery/
Namely, that it depends more on individuals than statistics ... on the specific child and on the specific parent.

Edit: Also see this http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/
So individuals might get lucky.

[chenda]

You don't have to become a parent to have a positive impact on children or contribute to future generations.

I don't want children, but I look forward to been an aunt.

[JohnnyH]

Data is conflicting, not confident in the design of most of these studies... Anyway, there are some studies suggesting children and happiness:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/fashi ... .html?_r=0

"...parents under 30 are decidedly less happy than their child-free peers. Then, once parents hit 40, the relationship reverses and people with children are cheerier than those without."
Seems like the people I know that had children in the early twenties and teens spent the next 20 years playing catch-up.

"For people under 30, happiness declines with each additional child. Young parents of two are unhappier than young parents with one, and young parents of one child are unhappier than young people with no children. But with parents between the ages of 40 and 50, the number of children has no impact. And after 50, each child brings more joy."
Underline mine, definitely true from what I've seen.

[altoid]

So the relationship between kids and parents change. When kids are young and burdensome, parents feel stressful. While eventually they grow into adults, parents will harvest their hard work, through different ways.

Also, Youth plays a big part in my opinion. Everyone likes youth, which resembles energy, strength, and possibility in life. I guess that is why--when we still have youth ourselves, it does not matter much of having kids or not. But when we lost youth , kids are an extension of that, so there is always that positive energy/hope in your life, does this make sense?

I have been odd in this regards, as I always like old people, to me they represent wisdom, experience, and story.

[Seneca]

Data is conflicting, not confident in the design of most of these studies... Anyway, there are some studies suggesting children and happiness:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/fashi ... .html?_r=0

"...parents under 30 are decidedly less happy than their child-free peers. Then, once parents hit 40, the relationship reverses and people with children are cheerier than those without."
Seems like the people I know that had children in the early twenties and teens spent the next 20 years playing catch-up.

"For people under 30, happiness declines with each additional child. Young parents of two are unhappier than young parents with one, and young parents of one child are unhappier than young people with no children. But with parents between the ages of 40 and 50, the number of children has no impact. And after 50, each child brings more joy."
Underline mine, definitely true from what I've seen.

Parents who wait until their 30's to have kids are statistically ahead in several of the key easily quantified "happiness" measurements, education, income, wealth, more likely to be in a relationship/married etc etc. I can think of lots of reasons to have them young though too.

I agree with your earlier post about the people on this forum are precisely the ones we hope have kids, it's the intro to Idiocracy all over again.

In 2011 we discussed things we wanted to do before kids and chose to take lots of backpacking trips and ultimately go hike the Inca Trail. Nothing like the Continental Divide, but shit man, your finances seem more than solid, go do the Divide next year.

We have plenty of adventures planned, and we're not waiting for him to hit 18 and move out. Having kids is a reason to do awesome things like that, with and even sometimes without them. You want your kids to catch you being the man/husband/father you hope they become.

My wife read a line in a parenting book this AM I really liked. "Before I had kids I had six theories for how to raise children. Now I have six children and no theories."

If you want kids, you want a woman who is excited about being a mommy with the lifestyle you are looking for. You can train in the other stuff dude.

[DutchGirl]

Yeah....... You see, the fact that you are intelligent and that your fellow parent is intelligent does not guarantee that your offspring will be an asset to this world. At all.

There's also a little feeling of 'superiority' mixed into that argument that I don't like, at all. If you use that argument, you have disqualified yourself from MY ideal future world of humble, modest people...

So a big fat "no" to the argument that "we, of all people, should have lots of kids because we're so fantastic".