Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
ZAFCorrection
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by ZAFCorrection »

I'm also feeling this. Speaking as someone who took a major timeout for grad school and is now looking at having kids, my options seem to be 1) ask my wife to stay home, 2) unload some very un-ERE levels of cash on childcare and kinda maintain my current quality of life, or 3) unload less cash and see a significant drop in QoL for the next few years. Fortunately, we have the skillset to get aspirational class-level jobs, but otherwise having kids seems like it would be a serious fml moment.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by Hristo Botev »

ZAFCorrection wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:28 pm
for the next few years.
"Few" is of course relative, but my experience so far is that as the daycare expenses go away as the kids get older, they seem to get replaced with other expenses, even if you're not the type to spend money on the private tutor industry, etc. Kids gotta do something other than sitting around the house watching TV and playing video games.

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Stahlmann
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by Stahlmann »

@up

interesting read as 1%er explains to other 1%ers life of bottom 40% of given society :lol:
maybe this is why 1%ers are 1%ers.

edit: was this some kind of secret reptilian knowledge shared during meet ups in Californian forests :lol: ?
it got deleted.
I hope it gonna come back.
Last edited by Stahlmann on Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

steveo73
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by steveo73 »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:11 am
I feel this each and every day; and I feel it even more at the end of the month when I look at our expenses and wonder WHY THE HELL ARE KIDS SO DAMN EXPENSIVE! The system is just broken, and the fix is not (and cannot be): "have fewer kids" or "don't have kids at all."
I hear you. I've been told that you can make kids cheaper and there is some truth there but it's not that simple. I have 3 kids. We are cheap. Kids still aren't cheap. In stating all of that you can minimise the cost and still live a good life. I'm 46 and I'll never retire really early but if shit hit the fan and I lost my job and could never get another job I'd still be okay. It wouldn't be my ideal retirement but financially due to saving money I'm in a good position.

I do think having less or no kids is an option.

Hristo Botev wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:11 am
But the nuclear family on an island with two parents working full time ONLY works for high earners, and not very well, and only in the short term, because that kind of child-rearing (call it helicopter parenting, or bulldozer/lawnmower parenting, or whatever) is creating MASSIVE fissures in society, with the meritocracy replacing the aristocracy of generations ago, except that unlike generations ago, the "under" class (i.e., those who fail at the meritocracy game) doesn't have anything to do with their time, thanks to automation or whatever else, except to harbor resentments about a society that just doesn't seem to value them anymore.
I don't believe this. I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as what you state. Sure it is tough for people who can't show some value within society but I think that is the way it has always been. As I said above you can also create a better life for yourself in lots of different ways although personally I think saving is hugely important.

steveo73
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by steveo73 »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:25 pm
"Few" is of course relative, but my experience so far is that as the daycare expenses go away as the kids get older, they seem to get replaced with other expenses, even if you're not the type to spend money on the private tutor industry, etc. Kids gotta do something other than sitting around the house watching TV and playing video games.
Exactly. My daughter is 18, working full time and not paying any board. She even expects us to buy her stuff. Recently she asked for salmon steaks, pomegranate seeds and goats cheese when I eat mostly a lot of beans. My daughter has always been an issue but the truth is because she has been a pain in the ass we are not going to continue supporting her. At some point we will tell her to move out or pay board but she will fight tooth and nail and I don't want to go through that just now.

My 16 yo son is great but we pay his gym costs which must add up to $2k per year. My 9 yo son is great as well but we have to pay for swimming lessons and speech pathology. We've had all 3 of them in day care and after care. Those costs go down but there are other costs. We may have to support my sons going to Uni because they haven't been pains in the backside.

You have kids there are going to be costs. I personally don't believe you can be too cheap. My 16 yo son was a mess. He was getting drunk at 13 and was hospitalised with depression. My daughter contributed to this by taking him out when alcohol was available without us having a clue what was going on. Now he is 16 and is doing really well. Going to the gym has been one of the factors that have helped him turn his life around.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by ZAFCorrection »

@hristo botev

My own experience has been growing up with folks who barely clawed their way into the middle class, and now I have two brothers who have secured their place back in the precariat. My parents made some half-hearted efforts to get us that good resume-building extra curricular shit, but I also spent a lot of time digging holes in the backyard. Making my way even further up the class ladder has been mostly due to the horrifying realization (around 18) that I might get stuck with the kinds of people I grew up with if I didn't do anything about it. Somehow since then I have derped my way along to the point that people seem to be ok paying me a lot of money.

Maybe my kids will turn out to be idiots, but I get the impression that the only thing I really need to do is convince my kids they will turn into poor losers if they don't come up with some kind of scheme to not suck. They should be able to come up with the rest. So I'll make sure they learn personal finance and where resources come from, but I'm not paying for them to learn how to become tea ceremony experts. They can go dig a hole or masturbate if they get critically bored.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I told my daughter that the best plan was to have baby(ies) while working on grad degree or lifestyle business. Both of these type combinations worked out much better for me than trying to combine full-time career-type job with parenting/household duties. It was not my intention to have a baby while still an undergrad, but I actually enjoyed class and baby more when I had the mix/balance.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: Brooks: "The Nuclear Family was a Mistake"

Post by ZAFCorrection »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:27 am
Edited to add: @JP had an excellent point in another thread. Maybe the reason people do not place value on the idea of tribe/extended family is because we are not able to measure the benefits as easily as we can with a large pile of money, a 3%WR, and a monthly budget of services we purchase.
It seems this issue is basically fractal with government behavior in terms of the episteme/metis breakdown (Seeing like a State).

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