Moving in with a significant other

How to pass, fit in, eventually set an example, and ultimately lead the way.
mathiverse
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Moving in with a significant other

Post by mathiverse »

I'm considering moving in with my significant other and they are considering moving in with me.

We've discussed all of the issues we could think of that might be a concern: noise, alone time, chores, what happens if we break up, what amenities we each prefer or don’t care about, having guests, and where we would look for a place. We've also both acknowledge that, for us, moving in together would be a step toward being more serious and committed. We also both make enough that we could afford the apartment we'd eventually get on our own incomes, so it's not a big lock in or risk for either of us financially.

On my end, I prefer the convenience and additional time we'd spend together. I don't see any reason why not to move in together. I'd get a roommate who I'll have to live with eventually assuming we want to continue building a life together.

What did you talk about with your significant other before you moved in with them? When did you decide to move in with your significant other? How long had you been together when you made that decision? Why did you decide to move in with your SO? How did moving in with your SO change your relationship or change you?

7Wannabe5
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

It is likely that my current perspective would only cast negativity upon this undertaking. However, I would note that your likelihood of success is probably much greater than I have ever achieved simply due to considering such a list of questions first. IOW, I would assume your own answers would not be along the lines of "Because he knocked me up.", "Because we were having sex 3 times/day so I didn't have time to get dressed and leave." or "Because my housemate literally went insane."

basuragomi
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by basuragomi »

We literally set up a worksheet with issues, stuck in our responses, discussed them to consensus then drafted a cohabitation agreement. Though the scope of discussion also included getting married so I excluded some questions.

Some example questions:
- How should we define and handle joint assets, separate assets, shared expenses, separate expenses, joint liabilities, and separate liabilities?
- Should we put in a trigger point to renegotiate the agreement?
- How should extraordinary medical costs/hardships be handled?
- Should we agree to some form of dispute resolution?
- Should we list sentimental property to be reserved in event of a separation?
- How tightly should we define shared expenses?
- How should liability for shared debts be allocated?
- If we agree to equal equity in joint assets regardless of contribution, would this also apply to joint assets that are used primarily by one person (e.g. a car) or are not essential for daily life (e.g. a cottage)?
- What happens if one party goes through an extended period of unemployment or underemployment?
- Should we codify non-asset things like division of household labour?
- Should someone gain a claim to another’s property if they make non-financial contributions to it? E.g. contributing labour to a renovation project on property the other person owns.
- If one of us gives the other a really expensive gift (e.g. >$5k) is that still separate property?

Peanut
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Peanut »

mathiverse wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:52 pm
We've also both acknowledge that, for us, moving in together would be a step toward being more serious and committed.

I don't see any reason why not to move in together.
This note of caution is geared towards heteronormative couples, particularly those who are young and never been married before, so if it’s not relevant just disregard. I’d advise doing some research into living together and how it contrasts with marriage. Studies have also been done that show couples can slide into marriage from cohabitating without much serious thought. I understand it’s a common practice but I’d still discourage anyone from living together for the sake of convenience or saving money bc of the risk of negative effects on the development of the relationship.

Jason

Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Jason »

mathiverse wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:52 pm

We've discussed all of the issues we could think of that might be a concern: noise, alone time, chores, what happens if we break up, what amenities we each prefer or don’t care about, having guests, and where we would look for a place.
I once accompanied my wife to a sea town where she was giving a presentation. I spent my days at a tavern drinking beer, watching soccer and eating the most delicious nachos I ever had. When we met back at the hotel room, I was repeating like a howitzer. To the point that we were both teary eyed. Finally, my wife reached her breaking point and threatened to leave me if I farted one more time. Seriously. Like packing her suitcase and calling a lawyer breaking point. In order to save my marriage, I slept on the balcony overlooking the interior courtyard of the hotel blasting the other guests.

My point is, spread sheet all you want. Some things you just cannot plan for.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by classical_Liberal »

Jason wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:42 pm
My point is, spread sheet all you want. Some things you just cannot plan for.
+1

This stuff will evolve as you get to know each others shitty side. Stuff that can't be hidden anymore, whether you were doing is consciously or not. If you absolutely know you have an annoying habit, or that you will disagree about somethings then address them up front. Like if you need to keep a clean house and every time you go to your SO's it's trashed... talk about it now. Otherwise the key will be good, safe communication. Your significant other will need to know it's OK to approach you about serious irritations without inspiring a shit-ton of drama, and you need the same. Also pick your battles, because you are simply going to have to change some habits and accept your SO's preferences, but it should be a two way street focusing on the most important things on either side. Otherwise complaining to each other about the toothpaste tube/toilet paper roll minor-shit gets annoying real fast.

Edited to add: From an ERE cost saving perspective I just wanted to point out that moving in with a SO may not make you much headway. Yes, rent and some utilities like internet will be halved, but you have to compromise on other things. This is particularly true if SO is not in an ERE mindset. For example, food and household items cost more than my rent, they wouldn't if I had complete control over these items, and my SO is probably a Wheaton 4 now-a-days, so it's not like she's super wasteful. Plus you have to compromise on where you live, it's likely your SO will have some different priorities than you do, so your residence will have to cover both of your most important needs. This often (not always) equates to a few more $'s in rent.

bostonimproper
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by bostonimproper »

Another vote for learning how resolve disagreements constructively. My husband and I barely thought out the details of moving in together until we did it. We were pretty bad roommates at first, but we improved with trial and error, and were stronger as a couple for it.

Also, you should decide pretty soon if you are tracking toward marriage/life partnership or not and, if so, make sure you are aligned on the big values and life stuff (e.g. kids or no kids, where to live long term, etc.). The thing I see surprisingly often is people living together for like seven years then breaking up when they realize one wants kids and the other really really doesn't. It's kind of baffling how frequently this happens.

mathiverse
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by mathiverse »

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
bostonimproper wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:13 pm
Also, you should decide pretty soon if you are tracking toward marriage/life partnership or not and, if so, make sure you are aligned on the big values and life stuff (e.g. kids or no kids, where to live long term, etc.). The thing I see surprisingly often is people living together for like seven years then breaking up when they realize one wants kids and the other really really doesn't. It's kind of baffling how frequently this happens.
Peanut wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:27 pm
This note of caution is geared towards heteronormative couples, particularly those who are young and never been married before, so if it’s not relevant just disregard. I’d advise doing some research into living together and how it contrasts with marriage. Studies have also been done that show couples can slide into marriage from cohabitating without much serious thought. I understand it’s a common practice but I’d still discourage anyone from living together for the sake of convenience or saving money bc of the risk of negative effects on the development of the relationship.
Hm, I meant for the sentence, noting we've acknowledged that moving in together would be a step up in the "relationship elevator" toward marriage, to indicate we weren't moving in merely for convenience even if it is also convenient. Perhaps I should clarify with my SO as to what they consider moving in together to indicate? Is there some further discussion needed?

Why would moving in would be a risk to the development of the relationship? If anything more time together should cause more development since we will have to learn to handle conflict and other things. I'm really asking to learn and understand here. I wouldn't mind if someone spelled things out a bit more explicitly.

I also don't understand how anyone would slide into marriage. Note, that I have read articles saying that folks do that, but it doesn't seem like my style or the style of my SO. Also the hedge against this, as I mentioned, is that neither of us would be financially locked in and, personally, I'm used to moving regularly, so if I had to move out, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

We have discussed long term plans, desired locations, children, marriage, and preferred timelines for the preceding. Are there other big life things that should be discussed before moving in together?

ertyu
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by ertyu »

mathiverse wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:55 pm

We have discussed long term plans, desired locations, children, marriage, and preferred timelines for the preceding. Are there other big life things that should be discussed before moving in together?
whereas i'm not speaking from personal experience, i'm a reader of dan savage's column and it seems to me way too many couples neglect to discuss attitudes towards monogamy, monogamishness, and potentially opening the relationship. Seems like a common blind spot where monogamy is so taken for granted everyone just assumes their partner would be on the same page as them. 2 potential traps:

(1) a round peg having the energy to force themselves into a square hole in the early stages of the relationship (or maybe hoping the relationship would "square" them) and then discovering 7-10 yrs in that they can't (roundness here can refer to anything - kinks / things one thinks might be fun to try that may currently be on the backburner, attitudes towards monogamy, etc)

(2) couples leading less fulfilling sexual lives than they are capable of because either partner may hold back from raising things given how ingrained the social standard is.

bostonimproper
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by bostonimproper »

I'd probably talk explicitly about whether you both see getting married to each other and make rough plans on when you see that potentially happening. It sounds like you've had most of that talk already, but it doesn't hurt to make sure you're still on the same page.

The kind of anti-patterns I've seen:
(a) One partner is gunning for marriage and the other is fine with a long term serious relationship but would be open to parting ways at some point. They eventually fight and break up when the former realizes the latter doesn't see the relationship in the same way.
(b) Partners like each other enough to live together but are meh about committing to marriage, expecting to grow on each other. They wake up eight years later and settle on marrying each other because they sunk so much time into the relationship, even though neither are really happy.
(c) Partners love living together and do so for many years are seemingly very happy until all of a sudden they realize some big! life! values! are mismatched and they suddenly break up.

I'd add in how you want to handle finances, whether you like or ever would want to live with the in laws, and what ideal family life would look like (particularly if you want kids). I imagine a lot of this will probably come up naturally.

Riggerjack
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Riggerjack »

Perhaps I should clarify with my SO as to what they consider moving in together to indicate? Is there some further discussion needed?
Yes. And yes.

Assumptions will be problematic.

And a solid +1 to all of the advice above about communication and conflict resolution. These are skills, and not all of us learned them early or easily.

One does not know how another person will fight, until they really want to fight. That may not be the time to figure these things out.

Jacob mentioned in another thread that a primary consideration in a partner was how quickly she stepped out of the emotional/reactionary mode, and into adult communication mode.

On the other hand, while I never performed any of these tasks myself before cohabitation, I have been happily married for 13+ years. Sometimes, one just gets undeserved luck, and figures the rest out on the fly.

But that's a lousy strategy.

ertyu
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by ertyu »

elder care and other such responsibilities. comes up in everyone's life, no one thinks of discussing it at 30

Jin+Guice
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Jin+Guice »

Don't do it! I don't know how we all collectively decided that the only mature responsible thing to do is live with either 1) The person you are having sex with or 2) your family. These are the two worst groups of people to live with! Unless you've never lived with an SO before. Then you should do it. Some things you have to do to know.


Let's say this again:
Jason wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:42 pm
My point is, spread sheet all you want. Some things you just cannot plan for.

Finally someone(s) really gets me and my love life:
ertyu wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:19 pm
(1) a round peg having the energy to force themselves into a square hole in the early stages of the relationship (or maybe hoping the relationship would "square" them) and then discovering 7-10 yrs in that they can't (roundness here can refer to anything - kinks / things one thinks might be fun to try that may currently be on the backburner, attitudes towards monogamy, etc)

(2) couples leading less fulfilling sexual lives than they are capable of because either partner may hold back from raising things given how ingrained the social standard is.
bostonimproper wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:45 pm
(c) Partners love living together and do so for many years are seemingly very happy until all of a sudden they realize some big! life! values! are mismatched and they suddenly break up.

IlliniDave
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by IlliniDave »

Probably not helpful, but the only time I've lived with an SO the main thing we talked about immediately beforehand was the wedding details and all the "I do" stuff (talk about old fashioned!).

Agree how you'll split costs
Keep finances separate
The rest will work itself out, or not.

jacob
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by jacob »

Yes, the ability to argue in adult-mode instead of playing parent/child-games is a biggie. (Adult refers to one of the three ego-states in relating to one other person. The others are child- and parent-state.)

The risks are in the unknown-unknowns, that is, the things you take for granted in yourself to such a degree that you'd expect your SO and everybody else to behave the same way. I'll tell you that the biggest source of conflict in our marriage/living together---this might surprise some---has not been about anything financial but about clutter. It's not even the quantity of clutter (we produce about the same amounts) but the quality and form of it. For example, I prefer constant low-level decluttering to make sure it doesn't develop above a certain level but I never fully clean op. DW is happy to let it build up but will then clean it all the way down to zero eventually.

These values are deeply ingrained. It was only later I noticed how we're simply replicating the patterns of our respective parental households. Over the years, we've been able to figure out where each others limits are so we don't cross them. Being able to hash such conflicts out in adult-mode has been helpful.

One might imagine similar incompatibilities in terms of mutually annoying habits(*). This is why I think being able to relate in adult-mode is useful. I recommend Berne's book.

(*) One can only imagine what the Trump-era of divisive politics has done to households where people are interested in politics yet not on the same page. Like how do the Conways do it?! This would have been hard to predict/know in advance or at least considered relatively unimportant. Now some don't even want to date someone from the other-party.

Frita
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Frita »

+1 to Jacob’s comment about both partners needing to be able to have adult conversations

I have been married to my spouse for 29 years. We knew each other for three months. We have weathered stressors like advanced infertility; a severely disabled, medically fragile child (The other twin with lesser but time-consuming issues that are now resolved.); and the death of said child. All of these are highly correlated with divorce. Having similar values and being committed to the union no matter what are vital. But without being able to relate adult-to-adult, that would be impossible.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I think underlying the ability to argue in adult mode has to be something like unto a shared mission statement. I say this, because it has been my experience that when I have been the partner who is more invested in "the mission", I have naturally erred on the side of "parent" and vice-versa. I have also observed that conventional dating practice tends towards placing the female in "child" role, because the male is making all the decisions and arrangements. This is less likely to be true of relationships that evolve out of more of a mutual friendship circle or "hanging out" situation.

Also, take on clutter can be a pretty huge issue. One partner's "mess" may be other partner's "very important project in progress." I think having some division between common space, my space, and your space, even in a small domicile, is a very good practice. Once again, as with mission statement, when the project/mess is shared, then this issue is less likely to come up, but pretty rare and likely inadvisable to plan on a relationship in which all "missions" or "projects" are shared.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Jin+Guice »

If only there were some "extreme" method to opt-out of these issues. Sadly it is a law of physics that we all must eventually cohabitate with one person with whom we are romantically linked.

Since you insist:
jacob wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:02 am
The risks are in the unknown-unknowns, that is, the things you take for granted in yourself to such a degree that you'd expect your SO and everybody else to behave the same way.
Frita wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:17 am
+1 to Jacob’s comment about both partners needing to be able to have adult conversations
jacob wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:02 am
These values are deeply ingrained. It was only later I noticed how we're simply replicating the patterns of our respective parental households.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:09 am
I think having some division between common space, my space, and your space, even in a small domicile, is a very good practice.

mathiverse
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by mathiverse »

It sounds like the main concerns are:
  • Due to the unknown unknowns that will come up, we need a strong ability to resolve conflicts. Suggestion: Read Eric Berne's book, Games People Play.
  • Managing the risk that we will make decisions because they are easy and convenient (such as getting married and staying together) rather than because we've thought them through and decided it's what we'd like to do.
@Peanut mentioned there could be "negative effects on the development of the relationship" and I'd be interested in hearing about that. It doesn't make sense to me that moving in with an SO would have negative effects on the development of a relationship. Having to resolve conflict together seems like personal growth for the both of us, for example, not negative effects on the development of a relationship.
Riggerjack wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:58 pm
One does not know how another person will fight, until they really want to fight. That may not be the time to figure these things out.
@Riggerjack How does one sort out conflict resolution before having conflicts to resolve? We've gone through a couple disagreements and resolved them amicably, but you seem to suggest that may not be representative of the disagreements we might have if we move in together. Is that what you are saying? Did I misunderstand?
Jin+Guice wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:39 am
If only there were some "extreme" method to opt-out of these issues. Sadly it is a law of physics that we all must eventually cohabitate with one person with whom we are romantically linked.
I don't really see a reason to opt out even if it's an option. I've never lived with an SO before, so maybe I need some experience to understand why one would make that choice as you mentioned. The fact there will be conflict and we may have to work through each other's differing beliefs doesn't seem like a reason not to move in together. I'd be interested if you elaborated on your position that one shouldn't move in with an SO.

Riggerjack
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Re: Moving in with a significant other

Post by Riggerjack »

The relationship could be derailed from a goal of marriage, if one partner is not moving towards the goal of marriage, and considers cohabitation a compromise, already.

That doesn't seem to apply, but is fairly common.

I know I have lived with women I had no intention of marrying, and many of the younger men I have known have been in the same boat. I'm sure this also applies to women, but perhaps less commonly.

If you read through the advice, it almost all looks like variation on conflict resolution and ensuring that you are moving toward your goals/have compatible values.

Moving in together can be difficult in that friction that could be diffused with distance/time, no longer has that distance/time. Thus the advice about conflict resolution. Learning to live together, and generate less friction, learning to recognize potential friction, before it causes wear. Long before it causes a fire.

All very good advice.

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