ERE compliant marriage age

[fiby41]

Should I/anyone postpone marriage until after ERE or FI?
Should I/anyone postpone children until after ERE or FI?
How does your finances and marriage influence each other?
Can they be compartmentalized, if yes, how, otherwise is it even desirable to do so?
What is the age range at which one should marry to be optimal for ERE?

[2Birds1Stone]

It depends. We don't know your situation.
^ Ditto
One can make or break the other.
Separate finances could help mitigate some of the common problems resulting from money disagreements in marriage, but the topic is much deeper than that. Marrying the right person could also be amazing for your finances (motivation, 1+1=3, etc).
Don't think this is a valid question. Some people could marry at 22 and work on ERE together, others can do so at 52.

It sounds like you have a much more specific question and these questions are just "beating around the bush".

My $.02

[take2]

I think the most important thing is that you and your spouse view finances through a similar lens. It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to pursue ERE if your spouse is not on board. The degree to which you can make it work depends on how far apart you are in the finances spectrum. I don’t mean apart in terms of net worth, but rather how you view spending/saving. Finances can be apart or together, but it won’t work in any case if you’re a miser and your spouse is a spendthrift.

I don’t think achieving it before or after matters as much as you defining what the achievement is and how you plan to get there. What is your goal? The journey is just as important as the destination so how are you going about it? Does your prospective spouse share the same vision? Can you / would you want to adapt to suit them?

I don’t think there’s necessarily a right age to do anything, it depends much on the individual. I will say that for many people (myself included) it’s difficult to know themselves well until they’ve been exposed to multiple situations. This includes prospective partners. That’s not to discount the people who married their HS sweetheart and stayed together until death but I personally think that’s more of the exception than the rule. Without sufficient exposure to different partners it’s hard to be able to know who the right one for you is. Sorry, I realise that’s not quite what you were asking.

Back on topic - with children I think it’s best to be financially stable (not necessarily FI) before being responsible for another life.

[unemployable]

Marriage is a crapshoot at best. Consider MMM's divorce, and he's an internet celebrity worth millions. Everyone who has ever divorced was at some point certain they had found The One.

Pre-nups can be nullified, so they're not a workaround.

But at least you can undo marriage. You can't unhave a kid.

[Jean]

My dad thaught me that the most important quality to evaluate in a potential partner is your ability to divorce peacefully.

[jacob]

After a couple of tries/tests, I eventually figured that the most important quality in a life-partner was the mutual ability to settle arguments peacefully and a propensity towards quickly going to adult-to-adult interaction mode w/o problems, Eric Berne style.

[Frita]

I married prior to FI with kids afterwards. As others have said, marrying the right person is crucial. We’re both T’s and can communicate well with each other. Our values are similar as well.

[EdithKeeler]

I don’t understand why anyone would want to get married. Especially after a certain age. I don’t know that many people with happy marriages, and money is usually an issue in the marriage or when they want to split.

[Frita]

@EdithKeeler
Disclaimer: This is not an excuse, rather an explanation. Growing up in a rural, conservative area in the 1970s/1980s; getting married was just the default. Though marrying at age 21 is embarrassing young to admit; at the time, I was considered old. My acts of rebellion included keeping and using my maiden name in hyphenated form, working and continuing my education, solo travel and interests, and having kids later in life.

I agree that at a certain age marriage is pointless. In my case, I would say I have reached my limit of one. Had I not married by 30, I doubt I would have bothered. What’s your upper limit?

[unemployable]

I don’t understand why anyone would want to get married. Especially after a certain age.

The obvious short answer is money. I have a friend whose mother-in-law widowed and remarried recently at age 69. He basically died broke within a few LOW points, and although I don't know too many details, she had to sell their house.

Beyond this, marriage is a three-way contract among yourself, your spouse and the government, and I suspect many people consciously or subconsciously decide if the time ever comes to get out of said contract they can come out ahead.

[Frita]

@unemployable
Ah, marrying to be taken care of, I forgot about that age-old motive. I imagine that at age 69 it is easier to marry than to find a job. So, fellow females, ERE is saving us from such marriages.

[EdithKeeler]

This is not an excuse, rather an explanation. Growing up in a rural, conservative area in the 1970s/1980s; getting married was just the default. Though marrying at age 21 is embarrassing young to admit; at the time, I was considered old. My acts of rebellion included keeping and using my maiden name in hyphenated form, working and continuing my education, solo travel and interests, and having kids later in life.

I agree that at a certain age marriage is pointless. In my case, I would say I have reached my limit of one. Had I not married by 30, I doubt I would have bothered. What’s your upper limit?

Oh, I was being cynical and joking a tad. Two of my very good friends are unhappily married, but not quite unhappy enough to cut ties.

I was raised by a divorced mom who hated my dad, and that was her second marriage. My dad was married 3x. I didn’t have any good marriage role models. I grew up in an area with a lot of military, and several of my mom’s friends were single women in the army or Air Force who had pretty great careers. I just personally never felt a desire to get married, though if I’d wanted kids, I would have. Really that’s the only reason I can see to get married—it’s really hard to be a single parent (though not impossible, of course!), so sharing that with a spouse makes sense, and that formal commitment would be important to me.

But other than that—why? My friend got remarried at age 49 because her evangelical mother thought it was inappropriate that they were “living in sin.” So stupid, especially at that age, to cave to family pressure. And that marriage hasn’t been so great.

DBF is a good companion. I’m really looking forward to his upcoming visit. But I’ll be ready for him to go home, too.

I just really can’t see any compelling reason to get married , especially at my current ripe old age.

[Frita]

@EdithKeeler
Based on your examples, getting married sounds risky and difficult. I agree with marriage if having kids, though plenty of men don’t support their offspring post-divorce.

Don’t get me started on evangelicals! I have observed plenty starter marriages (followed by divorce and subsequent marriage) and young teen mothers all while proclaiming deep religiousness with an air of superior judgmentalness. Do you think your friend would have been happier “living in sin”? (I wonder if marriage can make relationships more difficult.)

A gal who ran a BnB in southwest rural Ireland would say your relationship with your DBF is perfect. One day I saw this random man at her place. He lives in his own house on the other side of the farm. They see each other every few days and had been married around 50 years. She said this arrangement was common in the area. It would be interesting to observe long-term as they co-parented in two different houses.

Enjoy you time with your DBF and subsequent E-time!

[EdithKeeler]

A gal who ran a BnB in southwest rural Ireland would say your relationship with your DBF is perfect. One day I saw this random man at her place. He lives in his own house on the other side of the farm. They see each other every few days and had been married around 50 years. She said this arrangement was common in the area. It would be interesting to observe long-term as they co-parented in two different houses.

That sounds perfect!! His and my relationship was best when he lived about three hours away and came in for long weekends. Time together, time apart, opportunity to start to miss each other.

Yeah, I think my friend probably would be happier “living in sin.” I think she felt because they were married she had a responsibility to take care of some stuff she wouldn’t have otherwise. From an ERE perspective, their marriage is a disaster. He had a bunch of debt he brought into the marriage and she “cleaned it up,” which I suspect meant taking a lot of it on and paying it off for him. He’s not a high earner, and has been employed off and on since they’ve been married. He’s not a very healthy person, and she’s very concerned she’ll be on the hook for paying for nursing home care for him in the future. She’s a worrier and a planner by nature and she wears herself out with the “what ifs,” and he’s happy as a clam while she takes care of everything.

It irritates me, because she’s a great person. He’s an ok guy, but lazy and irresponsible.

I can’t help but compare him to DBF. He and I have (idly) been talking about moving in together. Someday. Maybe. Eventually. He keeps wanting me to tell him what rent i will want him to pay and what chores I will expect him to do to “pay his keep.” It worries him a lot, actually. I think it’s funny. And nice.

I think not being married can—but not necessarily will—keep people from taking each other for granted.

[reepicheep]

I'd personally rather not, again. Hitting 30 this year.

Strong hesitation around tying myself down again. Lot of implicit assumptions with marriage and I don't have many examples of healthy ones. It's a lot easier to avoid any issues around money if one doesn't get married (or cohabitate). More freedom to travel, or do anything, really. Tradeoffs, of course. But relying on someone else to assauge my loneliness is not a smart long-term investment strategy.

Children may complicate things. They seem to. I'm not sure they have to. They aren't retirement plans. They are giggly, adorable, messy boats with minds of their own.

Old age is an uncertainty. General society views my sexual capital as about at it's peak. My anecdotal experience of older women around me does not support this story. On the whole, they seem happy with the sex and relationships they're having.

My thoughts could change for someone I cared about in desperate straits with their health insurance. Or about to be deported.

[Jin+Guice]

The degradation of this marriage thread into an anti-marriage thread warms my ice-cold heart.

[C40]

Some people do have REALLY great marriages.

But - (and maybe some who are really happily married can share their opinion) - does it really matter whether you got married? The good thing is the relationship. The 'being married' part is a small detail. Who cares? What difference does it make? If you didn't get married, would that have prevented or limited your relationship?

[bostonimproper]

We got married because we plan to have kids, with one partner likely to be a stay at home parent. It just felt like it made sense to make a governmentally backed decision to support each other financially, since we'd be acting as a family unit, and marriage protects the stay at home spouse's livelihood in case of a divorce.

As far as when to marry, we did so a couple years prior to trying for kids (still working on that part) because of the above motivations. Neither marriage nor kids are waiting on FI-- I don't think my ovaries can last that long and IVF is expensive.

[Ego]

But - (and maybe some who are really happily married can share their opinion) - does it really matter whether you got married?

https://ifstudies.org/blog/cohabitation ... ip-quality

As the figure below shows, married individuals were 12 percentage points more likely to report being in the high relationship satisfaction group, 26 percentage points more likely to report being in the highest stability group, and 15 percentage points more likely to report being in the highest commitment group.

Commitment begats stability begats relationship satisfaction.

[jacob]

There are relationships and then there are contracts. Contracts are described along various dimensions. Spoken and unspoken expectations. Then the government, financial, and insurance can also get involved. An official marriage is essentially a package of those things. It's like establishing an S-Corp with someone.

For example, suppose you're in a long term relationship (like decades) but not married and SO ends up non-responsive in the hospital. SO (of course) has not written down any advanced directives, but they did tell you about their preferences. However, you're not married, so you don't get to have any input whatsoever... whereas estranged cousin Elmo whom neither of you have seen in years does as the closest living relative. Obviously access to corporate health insurance in the US is also a biggie.

Basically, in the US, just like corporations are legally treated as [unit] persons, so are married couples treated as [unit] persons as far as the government is concerned.

Fun fact: It's really super culture dependent up to the point of government involvement. Denmark might be the opposite of India or the southern US in that regard. People do get married but it's mostly for the romantic experience (the party, the dress, ... ). Because technically, you can get married and/or divorced by logging in online, checking a few boxes, and hitting submit. You're system-wide status will then update automagically. DW and I confirmed our marriage in Denmark the dinosaur way: Filled out a form, scanned it, and emailed it ... and about a week later we were now married in two countries---confirmed by email. More importantly! If you're co-living for more than X amount of time (it's either a year or a few months?!), the government considers you de facto married in terms of government benefits, etc. This has actually resulted in people NOT moving together (or moving apart) to avoid losing e.g. disability benefits because the BF or GF are expected to pay if they live in the same home. I'm not aware of any significant tax benefits (like deductions, retirement savings, etc.) for being married---if I understand correctly, everybody files the US equivalent of single.