How to protect your retirement from your parents

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
7Wannabe5
Posts: 4953
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:59 am

@Edith Keeler:

Excellent post. All very true.

Further specific note for those shopping for elder care, my sister did make some inquiries through "A Place for Mom" , and I do not recommend it UNLESS you are very aware that it heavily promotes private, expensive facilities. Even in situations, like with my mother, when the elderly person has more than adequate secure monthly income, public facilities will more likely provide ultimate top to expenses. In my mother's area, the least expensive private independent senior living (with some additional assisted care provided on extra fee for service basis) is $2700/month. The publicly supported independent living facilities top rent at proportion of total income, which in my mother's case would be less than the $2700, even with very middle-class level retirement income. The private facilities are more posh, so might seem like a better deal initially, but once any assisted care fees start tacking on, the public facilities providing top on expenses becomes much better deal.

Also, percentage of income applied to rent is tagged to median income in area, so it might be good medium term planning to relocate to high income area before seeking senior housing.

daylen
Posts: 1048
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by daylen » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:05 am

My parents never married and they were separated from the start. My dad is the kind of guy that started working and saving from a very young age (ISTP). He is a very chill guy and we go hiking/biking together. I have spent most of my life living with my mom (INFP) who is not great with money (not terrible either). We are really good friends too, and we have casually talked about how I can provide her shelter if she pays for all her other expenses in her old age.

Sclass
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by Sclass » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:54 am

classical_Liberal wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:43 pm
I didn't read the article. However, part of this retirement discussion has to be health care directive related. This needs to go beyond the idea of DNR/DNI.
I have a little experience with this. I can give some info for CA. Policy varies by state.

My backstory is my dad didn’t want the kids having much control. So he made sure mom didn’t sign any DPOA, DNR, will etc. while she was lucid. I got a couple of POAs for small financial accounts that he filled to pay small bills. He likes control. He always reminded me I didn’t have legal authority to do anything more than personally look after mom. Yeah he’s a dick.

As I went through the process of seven years of caring for mom I learned slowly and the hard way that a lot of this doesn’t matter. I got mom a DNR signed just by me called a POLST. I put mom into hospice without a DPOA even though you’re supposed to have one. I signed alone.

I also learned I could just drop her off at the nearest Medicaid facility for broke old folks and be done with her without any authorization. Yeah, there’s what the lawyers say and reality. I used this threat to get my dad to give me access to his big pots of money and I started the 24/7 $250k/yr care team. He got really upset that I forced his hand but as I say it has been a seven year war or chess game of sorts. I basically said, here is the first monthly bill for $20k, I need money or else I drive mom to the shittiest home in LA and sign her in.

I wasn’t going to pay for this. I was already giving my time.

I loved my mom but I had to find a way for mom and dad to pay for the care. They are rich after all. Dad wanted to dump it on me since I was rich in his eyes. I think he secretly wanted to financially ruin me too because he was bitter that I achieved independence on my own and made my freedom before he lured me back. I’ll never know. I don’t have esp.

At the end I put mom into hospice. Home hospice. One signature. Mine. I buried her. One signature. Mine again. I gathered up all her assets. One signature again. Mine. No DPOA, no will, no living trust no DNR.

Funny how reality works out versus what we are told by our controllers.

In the aftermath I wondered how my dad put my wealthy and independent (very lucid) grandparents into care in their 90s. They wanted to stay at home but they went to an institution at my dad’s hand. Kicking and screaming. I asked my uncle and he said they just dropped them off and signed them in. No DPOA, no wills, no trust no DNR. My grandfather was more manipulative and more stubborn than my dad. The old man fell and died while trying to escape. The only explanation I have for this is the rules really ain’t the rules.

fiby41
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by fiby41 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:55 am

They should publish another article on How Sticky Pop-ups Can Ruin Your Website — and How to Make Sure They Don’t.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by classical_Liberal » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:33 pm

@Sclass

I read along with your situation with mother. Indeed, you handled it in the best possible way imaginable given the circumstances. You should be proud!

My comment is more to suggest that this conversation needs to be had vs the legalities of it all. In a reasonable healthy situation, I would hope at least one family member would adhere to what a person 's preference for late life care. It's much easier to do this if it has been written out in advance. Dementia/Alzheimer's is particularly brutal if the person suffering from the illness is otherwise healthy. Still, for me personally, in those circumstances, I would not want to be admitted to the hospital for any medical treatment. Comfort only for me, and if I succumb to an easily treated pneumonia, so be it. I know my mother feels the same way, since I know this, I can direct her care appropriately should that situation ever arise.

Sclass
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by Sclass » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:15 am

classical_Liberal wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:33 pm
My comment is more to suggest that this conversation needs to be had vs the legalities of it all. In a reasonable healthy situation, I would hope at least one family member would adhere to what a person 's preference for late life care. It's much easier to do this if it has been written out in advance.
Got it. There is nothing like getting things out on the table up front. It’s all about communication and expectation.

I’ve been witness to and been involved in these conversations. Some went really well and had great outcomes. Others, like with my parents were a waste of time. My mom was in denial. Once dementia starts there is a narrow window where a person will be rational and receptive. Beyond that they are blissfully ignorant of their predicament. My dad just played into this because he wanted to control mom and the home beyond their divorce.

One that comes to mind was a childless grand aunt who refused any help from my family and insisted on checking herself into assisted living. She ended up passing fifteen years later in the same facility in their nursing wing. The only thing we needed to worry about was eating at the cafeteria with her once a month. I recall the food being good but the environment was sad.

For my family and my wife’s family we’ve have met a lot of resistance. Our fathers are stubborn businessmen. They are all about control and getting their way. It doesn’t seem to matter that they cause a headache for others down the road.

It all depends on the person I guess.

Solvent
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: ኢትዮጵያ
Contact:

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by Solvent » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:02 pm

Hey. Can I just chime in to say, and I have thought this in other threads but not outright said it, thanks to Sclass for sharing so much of his experience. I feel like I've learnt a lot.

For what it's worth, I know my mother is vocal frequently about not wanting extensive medical support towards the end of her life. My father, well, I don't recall that he's said anything on the matter. I have two other siblings that I trust deeply, that live close, so I hope our situation will not look the same. Also, at a later date, I hope I'll be closer to home, but one never can tell when things will happen. I really do fear that there's a chance that some emergency will happen and I'll be 24hrs+ worth of flying away.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 4953
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:25 pm

I am now in semi-crisis mode with my mother's situation. I was at my BF's for a couple days and she had to call the fire department to get her out of her reclining lift chair, because it came unplugged. Actually, all they had to do was plug it back in for her, but they sent out 4 emergency workers to do it.

So, I picked up a copy of "How to Care for Aging Parents: Your One Stop Resource for All of Your Medical, Financial, Housing and Emotional Issues" by Virginia Morris, and based on reading 3 most relevant chapters and skimming everything else, I highly recommend.

For instance, she recommends that you consult with your parent regarding their preferences for Time(longevity) vs. Comfort vs. Lucidity vs. Mobility if/when it comes down to a choice between these options. Just reading this suggestion was very enlightening for me, because I instantly realized that I had been burning rubber attempting to work against my Mother's clear, strong preference for Comfort. As in, "Why will she not co-operate with her physical therapy? Doesn't she realize she will end up in a wheelchair and likely get another possibly deadly blood clot?" So, VERY helpful in revising my boundaries.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 363
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by Jin+Guice » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:24 am

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories. I haven't had these conversations with my family, but y'all are making me realize that I need to. I don't have a great relationship with my parents and have been avoiding them for the past decade, visiting as infrequently as possible. Thankfully I have a good relationship with my little sister who is a high income earner, very responsible and very reasonable.

Both of my parents have more than sufficient resources to make it through retirement, barring expensive end of life care. However, I don't trust them not to squander it. I'm particularly worried about my mother in this regard. This thread has inspired me to have some uncomfortable conversations in the next year, hopefully before my parents experience any serious health issues.

User avatar
Lemur
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:40 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by Lemur » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:37 am

Interesting thread...well I don't have a bad relationship with my parents but not really a good one either. Its sort-of an arms-distance relationship. I think this stems from growing up without sometimes, not really being taught anything one-one as my parents were both working minimum wage full-time, and an overall lack of care upbringing. Not like bad but not really caring. My dad never had any kind of "talks" or anything like that. On a positive note, this way of growing up made me ferociously independent from a young age...and I grew up quickly and moved out at 18. With myself and 4 other siblings, full-time work and the like, time between child-parent relationship building was very limited. My mom's favorite words when asked "whats for dinner?" was "idk scrounge."

Now fast forward and I'm almost 30. My parents are divorced and no savings for either. My father doesn't take care of his health and he is falling apart as I write this post (in the hospital getting another toe / possibly foot amputated) because he let his diabetes out of control. My mother deals with depression, is obese herself, and barely making ends meet with my older brother and younger brother. My older brother is 40, never married, and is the stereotypical basement dweller (minus the basement). My younger brother is the same way and not independent in the least but this is due to some mental health issues as well.

I don't often think about my parents financial situation. As odd as this sounds, its very likely my father will pass away from health issues before my sister or I (the only two in the family responsible with money) will have to worry about it. I would be surprised if he lived another 10 years and likely he has 5 years left or so. My mother is someone we will have to worry about unless a health issue takes her too. My sister and I will have to gameplan this one. The best case scenario is if my mom can get herself to reach social security age (3 more years) to bring in some income. I can work with that but I'm not subsidizing anyone anytime soon unless a real effort is made by either to change.

User avatar
Bankai
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:28 am

Re: How to protect your retirement from your parents

Post by Bankai » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:46 pm

Whatever you decide to do, don't do this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... r-48105453

"A man who plotted to dump a vulnerable American pensioner in England so he could be treated for free on the NHS has been jailed."

Post Reply