Random Relationship Derailment Thread

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:58 am

@white belt:

It's much more common for a heterosexual man to be hired by a couple than a solo female. Of course, the market is such that many "bulls" offer their services gratis, so presenting yourself as very clean-cut and "coachable" would likely be the differential. Also, definitely illegal unless approached in very low-key barter manner, like if you were willing to trade for just dinner and drinks or maybe some travel accommodations. Generally, the male half of the couple will be shopping and "paying", but the female half will be the decider.

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:49 am

white belt wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:50 pm
Requirements are to be muscular and be able to put on a good show.
I think you may be overlooking one other important attribute.

And if you happen by chance to blessed with said attribute, then this is the man to model.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porfirio_Rubirosa

white belt
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by white belt » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:41 pm

@Jason

Actually from what I've read, for a male stripper that attribute is not that much of a factor. Confidence and physical fitness are most important. I think for porn that attribute is more of a factor.

Interesting case study. I wonder if you could replicate his strategy in the modern age. From his Wikipedia article, he was married 5 times and scored the following from divorces with extremely wealthy women:
Doris Duke, American heiress, September 1, 1947 – October 1948; with marital gifts and final settlement he received an alimony ($25,000 per year until remarriage), a fishing fleet off Africa, several sports cars, a converted B-25 bomber (La Ganza), and a 17th-century house in Rue de Bellechasse, Paris

Barbara Hutton, American heiress, December 30, 1953 – February 20, 1954; in the settlement he received a coffee plantation in the Dominican Republic, another B-25, polo ponies, jewelry, and a reported $2.5 million.
25k in 1947 dollars is almost 300k today.

Rubirosa had political connections at the highest levels in the Dominican Republic, and parlayed his diplomatic position to get access to the wealthiest of women. At the time, societal pressures for marriage were much greater and prenups non-existent which allowed him to profit enormously from divorce settlements. I also find it interesting that he never had any children (my uneducated guess is he was probably infertile).

I guess I just don't see how a man would get access to very wealthy women without being very wealthy himself or at least having powerful connections. Additionally, one statistic I came across is that 85.4% of single millionaire women would prefer to date another millionaire man and millionaire women are more likely to demand a prenup. If you don't have wealth or connections, maybe one option is to work in a job that puts you in close proximity to the women as "the help" in some form? For the ERE male living on <15k a year and pursuing this strategy (lentil baby?!), having a partner that is only moderately affluent and not incredibly wealthy might be sufficient.

Note that I haven't tried implementing any of these strategies, I just enjoy the thought experiment. Also my mind is constantly challenged/intrigued by 7W5's lifestyle and I'm trying to figure out what an implementation of some of her strategies could look like for my very different web of goals and circumstances.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:12 am

white belt wrote:For the ERE male living on <15k a year and pursuing this strategy (lentil baby?!), having a partner that is only moderately affluent and not incredibly wealthy might be sufficient.
Right. It's all relative. Even I could have a lentil baby, if I could locate a man who was content at maybe approximately $3000/year lifestyle. My Permaculture Partner was kind of like my lentil baby within that small context, but he ended up doing so much of the work I felt compelled by fairness to give him some equity. Just like my "ex" felt compelled by fairness to write me into his will and occasionally write me a check, because I was helping him out so much with his business.

It's important to recognize that becoming a "lentil baby" it is only very rarely going to be an efficient choice in terms of earnings+savings per hour at marginal possible wage rate to be earned elsewhere, and to the extent that you are performing labor of any kind within the boundaries of another individual's domain, you will not be increasing equity except to the extent that achieved savings in current living expenses allows you to let funds or businesses invested or established elsewhere continue to grow without need for draw down and/or taxation.

Also, I wouldn't describe anything I have done as a successful strategy. My life is more like a very nerdy version of a Lucille Ball comedy.

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:48 am

white belt wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:41 pm
Note that I haven't tried implementing any of these strategies, I just enjoy the thought experiment.
And this year's Academy Award for "Best Excuse When Caught Masturbating To Fetish Porn" goes to...White Belt!!!!

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:00 am

Someone I know had a male professor who shouted at the beginning of a lecture “NEVER MARRY A WOMAN FOR MONEY BECAUSE YOU’LL HAVE TO EARN EVERY FUCKING PENNY!”

white belt
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by white belt » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:41 pm

@7W5

After re-reading your original "sugar baby vs. lentil baby" post, I think I would primarily be interested in being a sugar baby. Although I would say ERE has taught me many skills that could make me a valuable lentil baby, I think a partner would quickly find me overbearing if I were to suggest or implement things to make her life more efficient. Part of being in INTJ means I can have some pretty strong opinions on the "correct" way of doing something, so I've learned to keep my mouth shut and not offer advice unless asked for it.

A sugar baby lifestyle might work. The problem with that is that I don't really have any interest in expensive restaurant meals or designer goods, which seem to be the most common forms of payment in such an arrangement. Grassfed meat and free range eggs on the other hand would be perfect.

I would probably only explore one of these arrangements after leaving full-time work with a minimum of 20x net worth. Really I just see it as another possible income stream in my semi-retirement.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:15 am

@white belt:

Whether you are a lentil baby or a sugar baby or something in between, you still have to learn how to be good in the follow. That is pretty much the primary requirement of the job. I would suggest that you pick up some books written prior to 1970 on the topic of how to be a good wife or girlfriend, or some much earlier works on the topic of how to be a good steward or bondsman, or maybe something on the topic of how to succeed as a young salaryman in Japan, or maybe even something on the topic of how to be a strong submissive in the SM scene or geisha.

Anyways, it has been my experience that implementing or suggesting "efficiencies" is usually appreciated to the extent that these efficiencies are in alignment with the purpose of other. For example, my "ex" prided himself on being a jovial host, so he would not have appreciated suggestion that he entertain fewer house-guests, but he was amazed and highly appreciative on the occasion I threw together last-minute party for 16 for only $80.

Start out by focusing on only listening for direct instruction to fulfill, and then after you have established trust, you can free-style a bit more.

I agree with your notion that best as part-time occupation, because not very many people want to be in the follow all the time, no matter how lucrative or conserving of resources. That said, it is actually easier to be strong in the follow if you are also confident in the lead within other contexts.

Also, if you want to be "paid" in grassfed meat and free-range eggs, maybe your best bet would be just to volunteer at an organic farm.

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:11 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:15 am
@white belt:

or maybe even something on the topic of how to be a strong submissive in the SM scene
I would think a white belt would already have a lot of experience taking orders from someone with a black belt.

Toska2
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Toska2 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:22 pm

7wannabe5 has greatly influenced my dating. Her ability to date across social groups and generations implies just how fierce the market is for a female my age. Before in jest, my analogy was I couldn't give beer away at a nascar race. After a few of 7wannabe5's stories I did a little experiment. I messaged every female 23-37 (I was 27) within a 100 mile radius (Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint ect) on OkCupid. Not a single response. There wasn't a written No, Yes or Hi. That silence said," find something else. So I stopped trying and I have been happier since.

slsdly
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by slsdly » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:50 pm

@Toska2, I'm probably a few years older, but once I closed all the dating accounts and decided being a bachelor isn't so bad, there has been more opportunity. A little bewildering, but too little, too late. I could get responses on OkCupid, but I always got the sense of there being many suitors banging on the door, so every message better be magical. I look around me and see many people in situations I would describe as trapped/domineered by their partners. Or more specifically the bottomless well of desires their partners have -- they themselves can be quite nice, just not very easily satisfied. Remaining single is not the worst choice one could make ;).

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:58 pm

@Toska2:

That's sad to me since I met you in person, so I know that you are an attractive young man, and the sort of person who will carry heavy boxes for an old lady. Same goes for theanimal, even though he has the added problem of semi-arctic location.

Maybe I should start an old school personal-touch matchmaking service for the young single men of the frugal community. Since I am probably eventually going to have to find a bride for my own INTP son, it would fit right in with my web-of-goals. I could call it something like Lentil Babies R' Us, except that sounds too much like vegetarian-only. I could start by working my young kindergarten teacher and gardening group volunteer circles along with friend circles of my DD27 and my 21 year old niece.

I could even hostess mixers that would give the frugal-fit young men the opportunity to show off their musculature doing something like hauling all of the refuse out and installing a roof on a dilapidated auction house in Detroit for me, and the creative-simple-living young women could bring pies and salads. It could be kind of like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbzJtP75NqM

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:10 pm

7wb5 - Put me on your list. I'm not having a lot of trouble, but hey, one can always do better.

You might want to include a sort of "salon" format during your event, as there is much more to a mate than a glistening brawny body and physical labor potential.

Side note - I love that movie. Watched it many times in my youth. I was discussing it recently with my siblings and found it odd that they didn't even recollect that the plot of the movie was kidnapping women to fill domestic, romantic, and sexual roles.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:30 am

@C40:

You would be welcome to join my list, even though I suspect that might be a little bit like inviting the fox into the hen house :lol:

The salon is a good idea. Then maybe I could call my service "Best Company" in homage to Austen. The muscle work was mostly just me figuring out how I can get paid enough for my services with a frugal niche customer base. I was thinking about how in some tribes young men have to work for their potential father-in-law for several years in order to earn a bride.

" Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" is a great movie. As I am sure you know, it is based on Stephen Vincent Benet's short story "The Sobbin' Women" which is based on the Roman myth of the Rape of the Sabine Women (back then the word "rape" meant "snatch", as in another famous work "The Rape of the Lock"), which is really about the mingling of cultures through marriage towards higher level of civilization. I guess, I would be promoting the mingling of the simple-living females with the frugal-finance males through the shared appreciation of literature, nature*, systems theory and handicrafts. I believe this is a needed service due to the utter lack of success I have seen on the dating thread here and on permaculture sites. I think that sometimes the better a person is at planning their own lifestyle, the harder time they have integrating it with somebody else's "stuff" and druthers.

*Rough camping weekend might also be included in the package.

Jean
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jean » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:29 am

Women who stay on dating apps are almost allways Bad match anyway..
But i would be happy to join your event, even if i'm not looking for someone. I'll be in thé area during thé first week of september.

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:40 am

And don't forget the best part. All the young men in attendance will leave with a complimentary bag of flower seeds, a mimeographed copy of an 18th century poem and a handjob.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:54 am

@Jean:

I would love to have you attend, but I'm not sure if I will be able to pull it off by this September. My primary event focus for this year is my DD27's wedding in October. I have been helping her with a lot of the planning recently, and this has caused me to remember that throwing fun parties on the cheap is one of my secret skills. I have also been listening to the "Live Your Life from the Front Seat" podcast which advises that you should spend 80% of your time doing things you are good at rather than attempting to live a "balanced" life.

@Jason:

Image

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:16 am

So if I'm understanding the above imagery correctly, you don't want to read "Campside 7Wannabe5", my alternate lyric version to "Hotel California"?

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 am

@Jason:

lol- Censorship of literature is against my religion.

I just meant to imply that you were being a pest while I was engaged in the highly important process of cooking up a scheme. However, my second thought is that maybe becoming a matchmaker is a bad choice for me, because I am not supposed to promote the Extroverted Feeling part of my personality, because it is immature. I did feel sad when Toska2 wrote that he was having trouble with dating, but I can't just round up and hand out other females to date as if they were cookies. IOW, it's likely that I would make the same sort of mess of things as Austen's Emma.

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:21 pm

I think you can pull it off. And it's not immature if it's done with the purest Machiavellian intent.

That being said:

"She's got a lot of penny-pinching boys, she calls friends."

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