Random Relationship Derailment Thread

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Augustus wrote:It's funny how the tables turn when you have a daughter. The problem with that idea is that the women end up with no assets/skills, the ability to get the old man on the boat is age dependent, and the woman is going to have 50%+ of her life ahead of her when obtaining the old rich man scenario is no longer possible. The old rich man is unlikely to leave her any money, and will probably dump her at some point before he dies anyways. Having no skills or assets means they're basically imprisoned with whatever dude they end up with, and the guy will often dump them or treat them like shit because of the power disparity, he can do whatever he wants and she just has to put up with it or she is homeless. Which is really one of the primary issues facing any woman, and is harder for them than it is for men. Men are almost always expected to accumulate money and assets. It may seem unfair that the man has to go work while the woman can just look hot and find a mate, but I know that I certainly do not want anyone to be lording over me and telling me what to do lest they tire of me and dump me in a homeless shelter. When I make the money and have the skills and accumulate the assets I have the power, and I want to keep it that way.
Yes and no. The old man on the boat is not often regarded with sympathy, but the further along in life's journey a man goes, the more likely it becomes that the bulk of what he has made of his life is now stored in the form of financial assets or just memories. He wishes he was still the 21 year old who could render a pretty girl brainless all night long, but now the next best he can offer is to turn on the passenger seat warmer in his Lexus. So, it is rarely the case that such a relationship is a one-sided power play.

Also, I would note for the record that I have been to a large extent financially supported by relatively affluent older men who weren't all that much older than me, and I'm not exactly a spring chicken myself. My early retired millionaire-next-door "ex" was only 55 to my 48 when we met. My current BF is only 2 years older than me and he is actually quite a bit better looking than me too :lol: It really has a lot more to do with being "good in the follow" than young and super-hot. And, I also think it is somewhat less likely that a man who has cared for you will simply serve you with walking papers with little consideration for your ongoing welfare than any given corporation with which you might otherwise be employed. At least 3 of my affluent exes have told me that anytime I need help of any kind, I should feel free to ask them. That said, definite nod of head to notion that any individual needs to be always on the lookout for own best interest inclusive of assets, equity, and prospects for future employment.

Augustus
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Augustus »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:17 pm
IIRC you have mentioned a couple times that being stuck with kids in a marriage with a jerk is not a good situation to be in. My comments were mostly aimed at procreational relationships. Lots of women get stuck with no skills/assets/income potential in a shitty relationship because they had a baby before establishing themselves financially.

If you have your financial house in order, by all means, live on the old mans boat if it makes you happy.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Augustus:

I don't disagree, but I would note that it is worse to be stuck with kids in a marriage with a jerk who is also a poor provider than to be stuck with a jerk who is at least a good provider. Also "jerk" is more likely to be eyes of the beholder than "good with money", and I don't think the two qualities are particularly well-correlated one way or the other.

Also, there is this sort of liar's paradox engaged when men consider protecting women they love from other men, because most men believe that most other men are douche-bags.

Augustus
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Augustus »

Are you telling me that a father could possibly be wrong about their daughters future relationship problems?

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Augustus:

lol- When my DD called me in tears because her first serious college BF dumped her, I wanted to get on a plane and throttle him myself.

Anyways, the best thing you can do for your daughter in terms of protecting her in future relationships is just to be a good model upon which she can base her expectations and core esteem. If a 6 year old girl is solid in her belief that her father thinks she is absolutely lovable, then even though like everyone else in this world, she will likely have her share of heartache and trouble, she will remain teflon in her confidence of that compass truth.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jin+Guice »

Does anyone here have any real world experience with sex workers as a 1) Sex Worker 2) John 3) Romantic Partner 4) Friend/ Acquaintance? I believe it is generally well accepted that sugar babies are sex workers.

If you can't guess, I'm asking because the understanding of their motives/ lives on here seems to be pretty weak.

Fish
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Fish »

@J+G: For your #1, you might want to check out @riparian (unfortunately no longer active on this forum). She also authored a couple e-books based on her experiences (haven’t read but they appear to have sold well).

Intro thread
viewtopic.php?t=1712

Journal
viewtopic.php?t=1715

Jin+Guice
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jin+Guice »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:48 pm

Also, there is this sort of liar's paradox engaged when men consider protecting women they love from other men, because most men believe that most other men are douche-bags.
Haha, this is so true.

@Fish: Thanks, I'll check it out.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

CS wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:43 pm
I will say though, having to have a separate area for this sort of talk reminds me of Bernie BS Sanders. "Stop distracting us with your irrelevant Wymin issues!" complete with a waggin' old white man finger. :lol: :lol: :lol: Nope. They ARE the relevant issues... get with the program.
I agree, waggin’ young Hispanic woman finger or waggin’ middle-aged black woman finger is the true source of authority, and dissenters should get with the program....or else.

Jean
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jean »

One good friend of mine prostituted herself. She wanted money to go on hollydays for the whole winter and as she thought she liked sex a lot, she thought it would be enjoyable. It was easy and safe money, but it wasn't as fun as she expected. Clients were nice but boring, (but not worse than tinder dates).

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

When I rented a room and office space from a male ENTP friend who fancied himself to be like Richard Feynman, he often rented out one of his other rooms to an escort, he dated another escort, and he allowed strippers to borrow his laundry facilities. The two escorts I knew the best were both late 20 something year old daughters of Jewish academics. One had a significant drug problem and the other wanted to save up the money she made through sex work to buy some land to camp on with her circle of Grateful Dead head friends. Neither of them looked like stereotypical high end escort, more like young moms at hippie co-op nursery, but they both worked out of expensive hotels in Detroit and D.C. and charged around $350/hr (this was around 10 years ago.) Their clientele was highly varied and included attractive, very busy young entrepreneur who wanted travel companion to Amsterdam, extremely overweight train engineer who for some reason also gave my escort friend all the free batteries she could possibly use (she shared some with me), middle-aged politicians, and older local guy whose wife hadn't had sex with him in 20 years.

This was during my early post-divorce period when I was spending money on getting my hair done and sometimes wearing heels (kind of a Samantha from Sex in the City look), so my escort friend told me I could easily get clients if I wanted, because lots of older men want somebody who isn't obviously too young to be seen with in public. She also told me that men don't pay for the sex; they pay for the "pretty."

prognastat
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by prognastat »

No full on prostitutes here(that I know of, it's very possible someone could be doing it on the down low). Some part-time and wannabe camgirls though yes.

As for sugar babies/sugar daddies my understanding is that the relationship is somewhat between a regular relationship and prostitution. There isa more direct exchange of sex/involvement for resources than in a regular relationship, but it's more involved and often more exclusive than the relationship between a prostitute and a john.

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:18 pm
Does anyone here have any real world experience with sex workers as a 1) Sex Worker 2) John 3) Romantic Partner 4) Friend/ Acquaintance?
Yes

Jason
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:18 pm
Does anyone here have any real world experience with sex workers as a 1) Sex Worker 2) John 3) Romantic Partner 4) Friend/ Acquaintance? I believe it is generally well accepted that sugar babies are sex workers.

Real world experience? Sorry, no. But I did have an angelic sex worker visitation. She looked just like Marcia Brady, only damaged. And she wore an army jacket to cover the whiskey bottle she smuggled down with her.

Riggerjack
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Riggerjack »

Cross post from another thread, but it comes up quite a bit.
Also the female attention derived from wearing noticeably more expensive fashion isn't the kind of female attention I want.
And plenty of other posts of a similar nature (filtering potential mates by not sending false signals) keep coming up.

Yes, this works, but...

Back in the old days when I was dating, I would go out with a friend of mine, Georgia. She was physically and socially way outside my league, but going out with me meant having a large male friend around for her, and a designated driver for me.

We developed a very successful routine. Walk into the club together, get drinks and a table together, scout the talent and comment on the other's choices. Women's opinions on women are very different from what I was noticing, and I tried to reciprocate.

Then we'd dance together. Which was also much more impressive on her part than mine. :oops:

Afterwards, we'd fake a disagreement, and she or I would spend the rest of the evening at the bar, leaving space at the table.

I found I was far, far more successful after that little charade. Georgia's take was that women pay a lot of attention to women. So a guy with a woman out of his league who can blow her off; will be far more attractive to other women. Those women will be wondering what she saw in him. That the ladies I was actually looking for weren't in Georgia's league also helped, I'm sure. That I was still concerned that she finished the night with safety, seemed to seal a few deals. 8-)

The point of the above story is that when dating, ALL female attention is helpful, as the more I had, the easier it was to get more. And it helped me move from a scarcity mindset to a more selective hunter's mindset. Also very helpful.

This was 25 years ago, so maybe everything is different now. But I doubt it.

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Stahlmann
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Stahlmann »

yep, in 2010 it was called "having wing partner" in PUA lingo.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Right. Upside to committed polyamory is having a permanent wing partner.

Early in our relationship, my BF and I attended an extremely lame event for middle-aged singles together/apart. After 10 minutes, we just ended up back at a table together, because the only other reasonably attractive people at the bar were the members of the band and their significant others.

white belt
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by white belt »

This thread has piqued my curiosity and I've done some cursory research into male sex work. I think it could fit into a web of goals of someone who enjoys weightlifting and eating healthy, and has somewhat of an entrepreneurial nature.

Here's what I have found from an hour or so of Googling:

Stripper
It appears the most money is in stripping for private parties, which can pay ~$200-$300 per party for some driving and an hour or so of work. Requirements are to be muscular and be able to put on a good show. This is probably more profitable in big cities with high population densities. It seems typical to work 1-3 parties in a night, almost always on Friday and Saturday nights. That could mean over $1k for two nights of work, which I know would cover a typical forumite's expenses for a whole month. A car is required it seems depending on the location. If you're working with an agency to get bookings, they will take a cut. Web developing and marketing skills could come in handy for promoting yourself, or make friends with other strippers who have connections.

Stripping as part of a male revue or at a strip club seems to provide more regular hours, however wages are much lower.

Male Prostitute
This one is harder to do research on, but from what I read I think there is actually more money in stripping unless you are willing to take on male clients. The demand for male prostitutes is just so much lower than for female prostitutes. In the US, there are of course legal risks with this line of work as well.

Sugar baby
Experiences seem to vary widely. Some get allowances of $1k+ a month, expensive meals, and gifts. It seems like each arrangement varies and I'm just unsure of the supply/demand (I would think there are plenty of young men who need money and fewer older women who are looking for such arrangements). It also seems hard to gauge the commitment required since it really starts to blur the line between working and a relationship. One relationship could easily cover a forumite's monthly expenses.

Lentil baby
No sources with this one other than 7W5's comments above.


I'd be really curious if any males have any experience with the above professions or knows anyone that has experience.


Edit: I forgot porn:

Porn Star
Male porn stars average $500 per day of work at major studio productions, although I'm uncertain how many hours that requires (I'm assuming 2-4 hours). However, getting consistent work from big porn studios requires one to live in the greater Los Angeles area. Additionally, the availability of widespread free internet porn is hemorrhaging profits for the big studios. One could go the entrepreneurial route and create their own website/videos. However, this requires you to have access to and a budget to pay attractive female performers. I'm unsure of how much work is involved to make a profit in the amateur porn space since I imagine it's hypercompetitive thanks to low barriers to entry.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Kriegsspiel »

Stahlmann wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:35 pm
yep, in 2010 it was called "having wing partner" in PUA lingo.
FWIW, he is describing a 'pivot,' not a wing.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@white belt:

It's much more common for a heterosexual man to be hired by a couple than a solo female. Of course, the market is such that many "bulls" offer their services gratis, so presenting yourself as very clean-cut and "coachable" would likely be the differential. Also, definitely illegal unless approached in very low-key barter manner, like if you were willing to trade for just dinner and drinks or maybe some travel accommodations. Generally, the male half of the couple will be shopping and "paying", but the female half will be the decider.

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