Random Relationship Derailment Thread

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
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Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

It is interesting how on college campuses and in corporations one does not need to have intellectual substance behind their assertions. Add the title of “vice president” or “department manager” or “college professor” and all one needs to do is parrot the moral indignation of a mob and you can bully people into compliance or into leaving by whipping people into a frenzy against them. What is admirable about Dr. Fisker is that he has the humility to recognize that he does not know everything, and that he does not have the authoritative claim to moral authority. And so he does not cave to bullies or ban free speech. And yet there will be people writing hit pieces about him, making assumptions, and curating information to support a previously held and superficial belief. “Let’s quote people out of context to support my hit piece.” Intellectual frauds. It is perfectly understandable why one would opt to become a guru on a mountain. It is also perfectly understandable how someone used to leading mobs with torches to successfully silence dissent and perpetrate character assassination would have to retreat like a whipped dog with his tail between his legs when those with integrity who refuse to comply are not silenced or banned by the central authority, exposing the intellectual bankruptcy for all to see. If a frugal nerd who believes in classical liberalism is socially isolated in a consumerist culture where polarized politics reign supreme, and tries to give voice to his isolation amongst friends, these shallow hypocrites try to paint this as something in the same ballpark as racial bigotry. Talk about using a broad brush. And this was supposed to be someone everyone raves about? “Wise and supportive.” Hahaha, how droll. So typical of a lickspittle dependent on the education-brainwash system of the oligarchical state. I see the intellectual bankruptcy for what it is. I am not even remotely impressed. Go back to your safe space.

You know, when Jennypenny or 7w5 or Clarice or EdithKeeler or DutchGirl write something, I read it with wide puppy-dog eyes. We can have a conversation without resorting to neutered “progressive”-college-speak.
Last edited by Mister Imperceptible on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scott 2
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Scott 2 »

I looked at the article, it's click bait. The author was clever in weaving threads of truth through the more extreme statements.

I'll say the same thing here I told cats and tats IRL - arguing gender politics on the internet is a waste of time.

Peanut
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Peanut »

Side note @Augustus: Dude, my PSA to you is to NEVER use “bitch” or “retard” in any real-life public/private/work space. Like, in front of your daughter’s friend’s parents or whatever mixed company situation you find yourself in. Call it PC police or whatever you like, but you must realize you can get crucified for this nowadays. If you don’t you’re very out of touch and I say this as someone older than you who has ‘innocently’ used both terms in the past and cringes when I hear them now.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 »

Cats_and_tats wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:44 pm
Did... Did you just respond ... by saying you are mad you aren't allowed to say the n-word? Yeah?? Okay, just checking.
His post didn't say or imply anything about him being mad he's not allowed to say the n-word.

Can you two stop trying to twist each-others words (or the content of that article) to win? There is no winning here. It seems like both of you are to the point where if/when the other says something useful, you will not recognize/understand/acknowledge/accept it.

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 »

If we want to continue the discussion started by that article, I'd suggest we discuss if there are things we can do to help improve the atmosphere of the forum.

I'm trying to say this without typing a lot, so, sorry if I lose you.

I don't think there is much benefit to (only) calling people out for 'bad behavior'. And I don't think that what needs to be done is to get posters to be more pc or acquiesce to different opinions. Often either of those things just result in debates, arguments, and resentment.

So.. then what? I don't really know. There are always root causes further back. I know of some things I think would help, but (to whatever extent I'm capable of) I'm not personally willing to do them often. I think a lot of the guys shitposting - younger ones** at least - would benefit from more understanding of and experience with the opposite sex (and in recognizing their role in how things are going and working on improving it in healthy ways). Certainly there are a lot of posters here who can share things that help with the understanding side. 7wb5 does this a ton. I learn a lot from JennyPenny's posts. I do think it is odd (for myself) to share a lot of that type of stuff on a personal finance forum. But,... idk...
Last edited by C40 on Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I’m sorry for oversharing. I’m sorry to have caused headaches for Dr. Fisker and C40 and anyone else who has read my posts with the principle of charity. I have no one to talk to IRL. I can be a better Stoic.

I am not apologetic to the moral hypocrites who lob attacks from behind a velvet rope.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 »

Cats_and_tats wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:44 am
Should it be the job of those 6 ladies to teach all the men that when they blog about how all women all gold-diggers and only care about x, y, z, and why women who don't look good they only rank a 3 out of 10 but if they try to look nice they are superficial bitches who are only after money - that it's an issue? That women won't want to be here? And should it be the job of the 6 women to kindly explain to the men WHY women shouldn't be treated that way, and hope it doesn't turn into something where you get hate spammed at you?
Huh? No. I definitely did not write or imply that (that it should be the job of 6 women here to teach the men .....), and I believe no one in this thread wrote that.

Now, in "teach all the men that when they blog about how all women all gold-diggers and only care about x, y, z, and ....." [emphasis mine]

All? Really, how many of the men here post things like that? I think it's a small minority (and within that, only about 5-7 users that write the majority of them)

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 »

Cats_and_tats wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:53 am
That wasn't my point. All *of* the men who are acting this way. Not all the men that exist.

It isn't that women are responsible, I'm saying people can only think of a few women, and there are many many men in the group. Why is it we can only think of 6 if people really think that there isn't a good reason women aren't here? 6 women vs 100 men? 200? The numbers look like that for a reason, and I don't think that there isn't interest in it.
Thank you for the clarification.
Cats_and_tats wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:53 am
Why is it we can only think of 6 if people really think that there isn't a good reason women aren't here? 6 women vs 100 men? 200? The numbers look like that for a reason, and I don't think that there isn't interest in it.
There is interest in it. It has been discussed in a handful of threads. I believe there was one main thread within the last year (that was discussing both the poor posts here and other reasons, but I don't recall what it was called)

I believe a few of the reasons discussed were:
- Some selection/filtering may happen due to Jacob's writing style. Not that it alienates women in any specific way, but that he writes like an INTJ astro physicist, and that realm of work, writing style, etc. is more populated by men (for whatever reason).
- ERE is over at/near an extreme end of the scale of the personal finance world. As that one Canadian guy would say, men have higher disagreeableness, and nearly all of the people with very high disagreeableness are men, and adopting an ERE philosophy does take some or a lot of disagreeableness to many societal/cultural norms, thus men are more likely to do so. I don't mean that women aren't interested in FIRE/ERE, but that they are more likely to end up in different parts of the FIRE world. For example, I'd guess that a lot of women are more likely to read and enjoy Your Money or Your life more than the ERE book.
- Then, for the women that do come look at the forum, they see some aggressive/rude/sexist posts here and some/many don't participate because of it
- Surely other reasons/ideas that I forgot.

fuyu
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by fuyu »

I think the ERE forum is one of the most interesting forums, and the only one I regularly return to lurk ^^;;. People here are so very generous with their thoughts and helpful advice. Even if there are a few guys who complain about women and say sexist things, there are more people that very patiently try to guide them to another perspective.

The only reason I rarely post here is because I don’t think I have anything meaningful to contribute, not because I feel unwelcomed.

prognastat
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by prognastat »

@Cats_and tats
I'm not intending any offence with any of what I'm about to say, but it really makes me wonder how is is that these posts(ers) you are complaining about men generalising and this being offensive to women and pushing women out of the community is sexist and offensive. However you have no trouble with the author of the blogpost doing the very same thing in using negative stereotypes/generalisations and doing to same yourself in some of your responses like the all men part C40 called out. You ask these men to be careful in their words for fear that they may offend and exclude women, but don't grant them the same courtesy you are asking for.

If this is offensive when done by men about women would it not be reasonable to assume the same would go the other way? Either both are offensive and allowed or neither are. I'm fall on the side of though I don't always agree with someone that we should err on the side of allowing the discussion as long as it doesn't devolve into simple name calling. You have said you would rather some posters/posts be removed if it were up to you as you take offence to them, I would say some of your posting in this very topic has been mildly offensive to me(and possibly others), but I wouldn't want it to be removed/banned simply because I don't agree with it or like it. That would make it an actual echo chamber with all dissent removed.

Also as to the number of women that was 6 I could think of off the top of my head. The majority of members don't even specify their gender or make it clear. No one implied it was their job to do anything. I was simply pointing out we do have prolific female posters when the only one crazylemon could think of was 7wb5. If banning certain ideas would increase this diversity I wouldn't want to exchange diversity of thoughts and ideas for any other kind of diversity. If this could be increased without sacrificing the latter I would be more than happy with it, but given that you yourself have expressed wishes towards restricting the allowable topics of discussion to achieve this it doesn't sound like you have a way of achieving the former without the latter.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jason

Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Jason »

I apologize. I thought two pages was sufficient. I'll have to check my Revenge Porn For Dummies Manual to ascertain the pagination criteria for introducing the topic. Unless you can guide me on it.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C40
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Re: Random Relationship Derailment Thread

Post by C40 »

Jason wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:16 pm
I apologize. I thought two pages was sufficient. I'll have to check my Revenge Porn For Dummies Manual to ascertain the pagination criteria for introducing the topic. Unless you can guide me on it.
Here you go: Do your revenge porn discussion (jokes) on 4chan, not here.

It's not wrong to make jokes or be funny. But a comedian needs to use tact in determining what jokes to make (and in what threads).

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