ERE shaming

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
prognastat
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by prognastat »

To admit that you would be able to do it is to admit that they woud be able to, but are choosing not to inadvertently through their daily choices. That's not something most want to accept. It's much easier to just tell yourself that someone else is delusional and that doing what everyone else does is the correct way.

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by classical_Liberal »

prognastat wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:01 am
To admit that you would be able to do it is to admit that they woud be able to, but are choosing not to inadvertently through their daily choices. That's not something most want to accept.
This is why I've found, if the subject is broached, provide them an "out". Then they tend to be less confused and/or outright aggressively negative about your situation. Personally, my favorite is kids. Since most people my age (30-40's) have them at home and I do not. When someone wonders how it's possible to go for so long without income, I basically respond that I don't have many "bills" and "you have to remember, I dont have kids". This provides them the mental space to think that I'm somehow very different than them. ie they could be me, except kids are expensive. And to some degree there is truth to it.

Depending on personal situation, the "kids" excuse may not work. Still, you can find something that does. Then, only the most interested will inquire further, and those tend to be the folks that are more open minded. You've given the 99% of others an excuse to not hate you or blame themselves and life can move on.

horsewoman
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by horsewoman »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:24 am
This is why I've found, if the subject is broached, provide them an "out".
Absolutely! I do have a kid so that avenue does not work 100% for me, but I use our beater cars. I live in Bavaria (AKA The home of BMW), where driving a tiny old FIAT gets you sympathy points all the time. Poor me!

frihet
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by frihet »

For some reason I am rereading this thread and as I have been thinking about making a thread about shame/guilt as social control I post here instead.

What is the real problem? That people have opinions, no, that will always be the case.

That we need to give them a conversational out so they can live with themselves? Yes that can be a way to make social interactions run smoother.

But I would argue that the main problem is that most of us find it so difficult to feel strong “negative” emotions. That is the main problem here if op could just let shame arise feel it completely and let it pass through him then he would discover that beneath every strong emotion, “good or bad”, lies pure energy and a source of power.

That is the path of transmutation, a life long adventure and I would even argue that it is the next Wheaton level to deal with this “problem”.

ertyu
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by ertyu »

I don't think it's about giving them an out. I think what it is is, most people, when they meet someone who is zealous and successful with a goal - weight, savings, you name it - feel like you will look down on them for not having been successful. So do tell them, "remember, I don't have kids," but as a means of letting them know you don't judge them and you accept them and their choices, not as a means of "giving them an out so they can keep making excuses to themselves about being a fail at this."

In the end, we all have choices. I can choose to be fat and not work on it, or to be in debt and not work on it. Someone else might think I should work on it, it might even be objectively "good" to work on it, but to me, our individual liberty trumps all. So everyone is free to choose to work on a goal or not, and they still fundamentally deserve respect - the way they lead their life might not be the way I think is good to lead a life, but I can only make choices about my life. They get to make choices about their lives. They get to decide what to work on and when. Respecting that right is a very fundamental value of mine. I don't make choices for others, and they don't get to make choices for me. They may think I'm making a bad choice, but "hey man, I'd have done differently in your shoes but it's your life and I respect your right to lead it as you think is right" is a overriding value.

zork97
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by zork97 »

frihet wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:47 pm
For some reason I am rereading this thread and as I have been thinking about making a thread about shame/guilt as social control I post here instead.

What is the real problem? That people have opinions, no, that will always be the case.

That we need to give them a conversational out so they can live with themselves? Yes that can be a way to make social interactions run smoother.

But I would argue that the main problem is that most of us find it so difficult to feel strong “negative” emotions. That is the main problem here if op could just let shame arise feel it completely and let it pass through him then he would discover that beneath every strong emotion, “good or bad”, lies pure energy and a source of power.

That is the path of transmutation, a life long adventure and I would even argue that it is the next Wheaton level to deal with this “problem”.

Thank you for this.

frihet
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by frihet »

zork97 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:10 am
Thank you for this.
You are welcomed. Here you can read more about it. Actually this might be even more advanced than just learning to be with strong emotion. And to be honest I haven’t yet learned to practice what is being described here myself. Even though I’m quite good at finding feelings as physical sensation in the body, something one of my teachers emphasize a lot.

http://arobuddhism.org/articles/embraci ... -path.html

“The practice of meditation in the context of embracing emotions as the path gives us another option. This option is one in which we neither repress, express nor dissipate our emotional energy. But one in which we let go of the conceptual scaffolding and wordlessly gaze into the physical sensation of the emotion. This is what we describe as 'staring into the face of arising emotions in order to realise their empty nature’. This is where meditation becomes an essential aspect of our method of discovery. The form of meditation we will discuss here comes from the system known as Trèk-chöd, which means ‘exploding the horizon of conventional reality’. Trèk-chöd involves finding the presence of awareness in the dimension of the sensation of the emotion we are experiencing. Simply speaking, we find the location of the emotion within the body (it may be localised or pervasive). This is where we feel the emotion as a physical sensation. We then allow that sensation to expand and pervade us. We become the emotion. We cease to be observers of our emotions. We stare into the face of the arising emotion with such completeness that all sense of division between ‘experience’ and ‘experiencer’ dissolve. In this way we open ourselves to glimpses of what we actually are. We start to become transparent to ourselves. Through this staring, the distorted energy of our emotions liberates itself. “

TopHatFox
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by TopHatFox »

Just get some hobbies. You don’t have to travel half-way across the world to be interesting

davtheram12
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Re: ERE shaming

Post by davtheram12 »

thegreatvoid wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:20 am
So lately I have been told by multiple people, including my sister and my mom, that " I don´t have a life " or " I´m not living life ".
To which I would respond "okay?" while giving them a puzzled look. I've had people make the same remarks to me and when asked to explain themselves they either can't answer me or don't have a valid enough reason to justify the accusations. I've developed pretty tough skin over the years and suggest you practice brushing off comments like that.
thegreatvoid wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:20 am
Off course my life seems a little unorthodox or uneventful , in comparison to the average worker bee / consumer. I don´t go out to bars or date, I don´t spend a fortune on 5 star luxury vacations to South Africa or Cuba like the rest of my family members does, These days I just live a very quiet life.
Nothing wrong with that. You have your preferences and they have theirs.
thegreatvoid wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:20 am
So what actually constitutes a LIFE LIVED ?

Has anyone else on this forum dealt with shaming and insult like this. And why is it that the most hurtful words always come from family members.
That will take some introspection on your part. Try to dig deep when it comes to this. Many people have trouble with this because their thoughts are in fact someone else's.

I've always been the 'WEIRD ONE' my whole life. For the longest I was very good about blending-in until I eventually got tired of lying to myself. I knew I was just going along with the motions that were expected of me. It brought a lot of turmoil and anguish knowing I wasn't living MY BEST LIFE. Now that I've learned to laugh off those types of 'insults' life has become better. People who appreciated my desire for ERE and frugality now know that when I do things it's because I WANT TO and don't feel obligated to out of 'TRADITION' or 'BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO'. It will get better and you will be happy you decided to live YOUR LIFE :)

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