Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

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C40
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Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by C40 »

I'm thinking about getting a static home again. So I'm thinking about where - and more generally, what size of city I may like to live in, what part of the city, etc. And, of course, the subject of transportation comes up. I currently have (and will most certainly keep) a big van that gets like 12mpg in cities.

When I last lived in a house, I bought a cheap mtb/hybrid bike on craigslist and attached a little box on a rear rack so I could use that to get groceries and for short trips around town.

I'd like an option for going further than I want to ride, and a bit faster. A motorcycle sounds like a good idea. I'd like to take on some projects - like buying cheap/old bikes and fixing/improving them. So.


- What have your experiences been like using motorcycles for cheap and efficient transportation?
- What type of bikes work well? (I know little about motorcycles.. I'm currently thinking smaller bikes with smaller engines (250cc or so, maybe 400 or 500 or even 125), maybe a 4 stroke dirt bike, ??)
- What are good resources to learn? (About motorcycles themselves, an introduction to maintenance, riding safely, etc.)
- Can buying old/rough motorcycles, fixing them up, and selling them provide any income? (maybe projects like this? or doing sort of similar cafe racer, brat, etc. conversions? Or maybe just getting bikes running to resell?)

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

For strictly transport a 125cc scooter might be your best bet. Has lockable storage and gets 80-100mpg.

I just sold my motorcycle, which was a 1300cc V4 bike that got ~50mpg highway. It's not very safe to ride here on Long Island. The people using cellphone while driving is reason alone for me to sell. Then you deal with sand/gravel on the roads in the spring, etc.

The best way to learn to ride is the MSF course, which also makes the license easier to obtain, at least here in NY.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Some random thoughts:
Consider an electric bicycle or scooter. I have no experience with them but they are getting more and more popular.

For transportation purposes almost any bike would work but my experience is that sportbikes are impractical for transporting anything, are more fragile, are more expensive to insure, are uncomfortable for long periods, and are more frequently stolen so I would avoid those. I think you are on the right track thinking about small bikes. A basic 125 or 250 will get the job done under 60mph or so and should be great to learn on. Dual sport bikes (dirt bikes) are good except the seat is often high. This can be a hassle in stop and go and low speed riding if you can't easily touch the ground.

Take a class to learn how to ride. With your background in cycling riding it should be no problem but you will still need to figure out the shifting and clutch. You will also have to get used to how heavy motorcycles are compared to a bicycle. The big ones are hard to recover once they begin to tip over. The class may also have good defensive driving tips.

Wear a helmet, jacket, and gloves, even if a helmet is not legally required. Get paranoid about people in cars trying to kill you. It's worse than bicycling because motorcycles are typically moving faster than a bicycle would so you get a lot less time to react to a car turning in front of you, etc.

It is possible to make money dealing motorcycles but it is tough to make significant money. This is because all the money is made at the buy. This means that you need to be able to find suitable bikes to purchase. In my mind there are three ways to make money. 1. You are a dealer so you buy at consumer or trade-in price and sell at a dealership price. 2. You buy a bike with something wrong with it and are able to fix it for less than you can sell it for. 3. In a cold weather state you buy low at the end of the riding season, park it for winter, and sell high in spring. PM me if you want more details on this but in my opinion it is more of a way to spend minimal money on your moto habit, try a lot of bikes, and enjoy tinkering than it is a good way to make money.

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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by jacob »

Another way to make money is to part them out and sell the parts on eBay. The cost of the sum of the parts of the bike >> the cost of the whole bike. Not something I've done, but I know someone who achieved powerseller or whatever the term is status doing mostly that.

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Sclass
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Sclass »

- What have your experiences been like using motorcycles for cheap and efficient transportation?

Fun. I have been asked this question many times (I’ve bought, sold, fixed and ridden second hand motorcycles since I was a teen) and it really depends on what your other vehicle is. If you sell your big SUV and trade it in for a motorcycle you’ll save. I always kept a few old cars and bikes at all times so the mc was just another vehicle that had expenses associated with it. Often roommates would gravitate to the fuel savings and cheap parking but they’d forget I was paying insurance, reg and maintenance for everything. If they bought a mc they would rarely dump the car so it was not saving money. You upgrading from a bike will undoubtedly cost more money but you get more.

That aside there is maintenance. MC parts cost more than the equivalent car parts. For example if you choose to use motorcycle oil (recommended because the gear case is shared with the crank case) you spend more on oil changes. Tip overs can be hard on bodywork if you want to maintain looks. Tires are expensive/mile ridden.

- What type of bikes work well? (I know little about motorcycles.. I'm currently thinking smaller bikes with smaller engines (250cc or so, maybe 400 or 500 or even 125), maybe a 4 stroke dirt bike, ??)

Depends on the kind of riding. For a car substitute I like the very big scooters. Good aerodynamics, carrying capacity and power to place yourself in the safest zones of traffic. My advice is buy a cheap beater of anything and find out what you specifically need. I live in a hilly area so anything under 500cc is too small to keep up with traffic. If you live in a city like San Francisco and only need to buy groceries a 250cc scooter would do better.

Do it like you would a bicycle. You get something and start riding it. If you find out you do a lot of downhill singletrack you trade your hybrid in for a 29er with double suspension. Maybe you need braze ons for panniers. Only you will know what you need.

- What are good resources to learn? (About motorcycles themselves, an introduction to maintenance, riding safely, etc.)

In CA you are required to take a rider training course to get licensed now. This would be a good place to start. Then buy a small beater and ride it, fix it etc. if you get it wrong you sell it on CL and get another.

Honda dealers used to offer dirt bike schools to get uninitiated families into off roading together. Might want to ask around a dealership “I have money to give to someone who can get me into motorcycles but I don’t know anything perhaps you can direct me?” Just be careful what you spend :lol: which is suspect won’t be an issue.

Another idea is take a tip from the third world. Those guys know motorcycle practicality. Get a small single cylinder 100mpg miracle and ride it till you realize you need more...then trade up in those areas. You’ll learning riding skills, maintenance etc on a low cost platform like a scooter or step through.

This system is persistent and practical for a reason. It’s funny how you see this in every third world country.

Image

Don’t do this till you know you need it. Remember, start cheap and slowly upgrade as you get to know he lay of the land.

Image

- Can buying old/rough motorcycles, fixing them up, and selling them provide any income? (maybe projects like this? or doing sort of similar cafe racer, brat, etc. conversions? Or maybe just getting bikes running to resell?)

There is a really good video about this on YouTube. Go to the channel Jennie’s Garage and watch all this genius’s videos. He’s funny and kind of an ERE type. You’ll learn the ins and outs of iron horse trading.

My experience is blah. I have owned a dozen bikes from 70cc to 1200cc over the years. All bought used. Fixed up. It was not a big money maker though I did make a few hundred on several. There are so many ways to get bitten like back reg, lost papers, damaged engines etc. it’s like any flip, you need to find the ones with problems that are fixable. More efficient marketplaces have raised the bar.

I seldom find the old bike for $150 covered in dust in the corner of a garage that just needs a carb clean and battery charge. The last fixer upper I got for a bargain needed new valves, new valve seats, a cylinder, piston and crank. The owner gave up and I only discovered it as I found his posts about his frustrations with the bike online. You get a sinking feeling when you find the bike you are searching for answers on is posted online by another dumb guy asking how to fix it two months ago.

What I do get is fun bikes that cost me very little to own. I get my money back if I buy cheap enough. I count labor as free because it is fun. I get to ride for cheap. Then I sell and move on. Kind of the way I do cars. It is a big jump between buying some used thing and fixing it up for personal use and getting a low cost of participation versus flipping for profit. Same goes for motorcycles, cars, homes, businesses etc.

My advice is get something cheap and Japanese on Craigslist and start working on it. Get the shop manuals so you aren’t flying blind(my latest bike had all service manuals online free in pdf). The service manuals are written so a monkey can use it. Buy tools as you need them.

Make mistakes on cheap bikes. Fail often fail fast.

Have fun. If done right it can be an inexpensive hobby and a fun way to get around.

enigmaT120
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by enigmaT120 »

They're fun. I rode my '81 R65 to work today. But my car (2004 Honda Insight) gets batter mpg: 45 for the Beemer, over 50 for the car. Except when I'm hauling my bicycle on the back of the car, then it's below 40. I realize that most cars don't get as many mpg as mine does, and eventually mine will have a big ($2000) expense when I need to replace the IMA battery.

Even now motorcycles are cheaper to get liability insurance on than cars, but before I turned 25 the difference was huge so all I had for motorized transport then was my old Triumph. Now I insure both motorcycles for $120/year, while my car is more like $400.

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Sclass
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Sclass »

Love those R bikes ! Was forever influenced by Jim Roger’s book Investment Biker.

]Image

BRUTE
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by BRUTE »

scooters are far more practical than motorcycles. but motorcycles are so much more fun.

brute recommends grabbing a used bike between 250-500cc. CL has tons of options, but a lot of shit piles that are probably too much to fix for a newbie. if it's about learning to ride, brute would recommend buying from a reputable dealer, but still used. the bike should not be too old.

there aren't that many models in the US below 500cc. there's the Ninja 250, Ninja 300 (they upped the ccs a bit around 2010 or so?), a few Honda 250s (sport style and naked style if brute remembers correctly). a few older 250cc cruisers like the Nighthawk and another one that escapes brute right now. the Ninja 500 is a bigger, still beginner friendly bike. the 650ccs are already a bit powerful for a beginner, and the 600cc sportbikes are absolutely not for beginners (confusing: 600cc sportbikes are way more powerful and twitchy than 650cc two cylinder bikes). dirt bikes are great to learn on if the seat height isn't a problem (it wasn't for brute). they crash cheaply and are very forgiving rides. but they absolutely suck on the highway - if there's any regular highway riding, scooters and dirt bikes are out.

any of those are fine for learning to ride. learning to ride and learning to wrench are two very different endeavors, and brute recommends not learning them at the same time. brute had to ride home without a clutch lever, without a shift lever, with a dysfunctional cylinder, and various other problems. while he never got into serious trouble, it was only because of luck. any of those happening at the wrong time can cause insta-death on the highway if the rider gets surprised and overreacts.

brute agrees with Sclass that "cheap hobby" is way more achievable than "profit center".

regarding speed, even the Ninja 250 will absolutely destroy most sports cars off the line, until 50-60mph. power to weight is just too easy on motorcycles.

there's a saying among motorcyclists that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. this is true.

slowtraveler
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by slowtraveler »

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Last edited by slowtraveler on Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

BRUTE
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by BRUTE »

plus ฿500 because no have license :D

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Sclass
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Sclass »

BRUTE wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:15 pm

any of those are fine for learning to ride. learning to ride and learning to wrench are two very different endeavors, and brute recommends not learning them at the same time. brute had to ride home without a clutch lever, without a shift lever, with a dysfunctional cylinder, and various other problems. while he never got into serious trouble, it was only because of luck. any of those happening at the wrong time can cause insta-death on the highway if the rider gets surprised and overreacts.
This is the voice of reason. I think I got ahead of myself with the advice. The consequences of failure are dire. Best to start with a small one for simplicity and less intense accidents.

What worked for me may not work for others.
jacob wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 1:05 pm
Another way to make money is to part them out and sell the parts on eBay. The cost of the sum of the parts of the bike >> the cost of the whole bike. Not something I've done, but I know someone who achieved powerseller or whatever the term is status doing mostly that.
You know, I’ve heard this from a guy I used to ride with. He would buy exotic dirt bikes lightly used. Makes like Gas Gas, Beta and Husquvarna. When he’d use them up he’d part them on eBay. There was a demand for this boutique stuff because new parts were very expensive. He’d get all his money back and then some. He said the real challenge was getting efficient on eBay so shipping and auctioning didn’t suck up too much time.

The problem was he had to ride bikes like Gas Gas and Beta which broke a lot.

RealPerson
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by RealPerson »

Why not consider an e-bike? Much less headaches and no need for special license or insurance. I built my e-bike with a 1000 W motor and it flies. It is great for a radius of 6-8 miles, which is 95% of my driving needs. It has essentially replaced my car. Much more useful than I anticipated. I could use a mtb or road, but this is way faster.

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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Farm_or »

I am shocked by how much I have in common with sclass. I started riding at ten years old. From my first pay check job, I bought a dirt bike because I didn't like riding horses every time we changed pastures or moved cows. I owned some kind of motorcycle for twenty five years.

For about ten years, I rode street for about 15k miles/ year. Safety has got to be your highest priority due to simple physics. I continuously learned and took advanced (for that time) classes based on the hurt study. It was a data based program that focused on the highest accident rates. It takes a different mindset to survive in traffic on two wheels. Defensive driving is applied religiously because a mere "fender bender" is lethal.

You must be at a peak mental condition every minute. You have to concentrate as your life depends on it. You can not afford a "brain fart" moment. Especially in this new age of texting drivers.

That alone is the biggest reason against affordability of two wheels in our culture. Third world cultures don't have street clogged with SUVs and minivans. They don't have economically corrupted health care cost/availability to navigate. Scooter vs scooter is survivable. Scooter vs suburban?

The other less known significance is the higher cost of operation. Tires are way more than economy car tires and don't last a third as long. Parts in general are higher. Ignition system is less potent requiring additional maintenance. Solid lifters are common, requiring additional maintenance. Air cooled engines require special oil and more frequent changes. Chain drives are common- more maintenance. Keeping that machine in peak condition is not only required, it is essential to your survival.

The bottom line? Economy cars beat two wheel options. They benefit from mass production and demand. They are engineered for low cost maintenance free operation. Especially given the hybrid technology of today. And they are a comfortable environment with music and space to make out in. If you are ever so lucky?

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Sclass
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Sclass »

Farm_or wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 7:22 am
I am shocked by how much I have in common with sclass. I started riding at ten years old. From my first pay check job, I bought a dirt bike because I didn't like riding horses every time we changed pastures or moved cows. I owned some kind of motorcycle for twenty five years.
Ahh my country cousin! :D I cannot help but see some similarities. My great grandparents were in farming. It’s in my DNA. :lol: I visited my second cousins on the family farm as a kid. I was so excited because I heard stories of the endless muddy roads and the barn full of dirt bikes. When Sclass the city mouse got there I was given a late model Yamaha YZ80. I was in heaven. Then we went riding down the muddy roads to a remote field. 15 minutes later we stopped and my great uncle made us wade into the water way and clear weeds for hours. Then we got to ride our bikes back to the house for fifteen minutes. Then we did it again and again for a week :lol: :lol: :lol: .

Every summer after that I fabricated an excuse to stay home. :lol: I can laugh now but for a 12 yo city boy it was hell.

I have much respect for you Farm-or. Farming is the original ERE.

Back to bikes, this reminds me of the importance of learning bikes on a sub 100cc pee wee. If you cannot keep up with traffic, better stay out of it in your novice days. A lot of people treat buying a bike as a one time thing and want to get a machine that will meet all their needs for an extended period. Learn, good in traffic, good performance to match skill improving. But, I think it is best done in many tiny steps involving many machines starting with a small dirt bike like a Honda 70.

enigmaT120
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by enigmaT120 »

Oh yeah Farm-or is right about the price of tires, I haven't had to buy a set for a year so had forgotten. Figure nearly a hundred bucks per tire, may last 10,000 miles though of course yours may vary.

BRUTE
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by BRUTE »

10,000 miles? brute's tires least less than half that and cost more than $100.

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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by jacob »

10k miles is a great distance walking around within the/a city: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/the-l ... r-buy.html

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Sclass
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by Sclass »

Depends on the tire. 10k is a decent touring tire. Big engines and heavy bikes also are harder on tires. Sticky race compounds can get roasted in half that. Brute does track days.

Hey since this is ERE motorcycling there is a group of guys mounting car tires to motorcycles to save money. The tires are cheaper and they last longer. There is a colloquial term for it that I forgot right now but proponents say it is safe and economical. Just looked it up “Darkside”.

Not my thing but it is an example of the extremes some riders will go to to save money.

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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by SavingWithBabies »

I second the MSF course. It's really fun too. I'd kind of like to go do it again. In terms of what to buy, honestly, it's more what is available in your local market. I ended up with an old 80's Honda 500cc motorcycle. It was fun and great to learn on but it had a huge fairing (top heavy). I rode it from Wisconsin to Texas and back for a trip. The hard luggage came in handy. I also used it for a while to commute to college. But point is, buy one and then sell it after you figure out what you really want (and can watch for it used). I did have to do some work on mine -- usual carb cleanup and tuning and then a stator (and while you're in there, might as well replace the timing chain guides/components that are known to fail).

I will say if you ride enough, you'll get really good situational awareness. Or you'll get hurt. But I think most intuitive people will develop the ability to predict what a driver is going to do. It gets harder with more traffic so it's easier to learn in less busy areas IMHO.

I waver on whether I've given up motorcycles forever or just until my kids grow up and are out of the house. I had a really bad back injury (not from motorcycling) and that made me realize just how much pain our nervous systems can dole out when nerves get damaged/injured/stressed (as in impacted). That was so much pain that I don't know that I ever want to do anything that would get me too close to that again. But I do think motorcycling is safer than bicycle riding (on roads w/ cars). And what is life without some risk?

BRUTE
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Re: Motorcycle for cheap transportation?

Post by BRUTE »

Sclass wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:23 pm
there is a group of guys mounting car tires to motorcycles to save money
but .. car tires aren't round. how would the bike turn. omg.


btw brute seconds the MSF course, great course.

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