Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

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Lillailler
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Lillailler »

"to expect the used car market to go to 0 (or close) for traditional cars in the near future "

Did anyone else see this as an opportunity?
If in 2020 you can sell your 15 year old car for 0 dollars and buy a two-year old car with 10+ years left in it for close to 0 dollars that has to be good, right? ( I guess it depends on the meaning of 'close to')
Somehow I don't think it's going to happen like that.

bryan
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by bryan »

bryan wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:34 pm
Ego wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm
1967 Electric VW microbus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcu-b3G ... e=youtu.be

2022 Electric VW microbus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPf7Qha ... e=youtu.be
That looks dumb as hell (will probably be re-designed closer to the end) and 4 years away seems a bit conservative, too late.

Definitely a big fan of electric-drive vans. I think a hybrid model (with a large battery and small diesel motor (like maximum speed of 65mph)) would make more sense. Most driving would be electric plus the bonus of the electricity (and maybe diesel heat) while living, but you don't need to worry about range anxiety so much.


One boon that I haven't heard/read about with EVs or autonomous cars is the higher likelihood of a mode of driving that minimizes cost of transport. I mean an intelligent routing (like Google Maps) that takes into account more information (elevation, predicted acceleration throughout the journey, vehicle fuel usage characteristics curves, driving style) for the purpose of minimizing the cost of your trip and real-time feedback/control of acceleration during the journey. Basically a pre-planned and dynamic, automated hypermiling.

Farm_or
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Farm_or »

That is a great idea, integrate Google maps with hypermiling purpose.

I have read of something similar used by FedEx or UPS (can't remember which) to plan their deliveries the most efficiently. Farthest stop first, maximum number of right turns.

There is certainly a market for regular users to choose the most efficient route.

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jennypenny
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by jennypenny »

Another warning against autonomous and hypertechnologized cars by Michael Crawford (author of Shop Class as Soulcraft) ... Why We Drive: Toward a Philosophy of the Open Road

It moved me, but admittedly I love his writing (and driving). It relates back to agency as well as automobiles and driving.

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

i read the back cover of the book, and it’s nice, but as a cyclist i have to say that many drivers can only be trusted with *less* agency not more.

see here an example of someone who is out to kill me:

https://media.giphy.com/media/YrhmJVkGWY8og/giphy.gif

i’d trust a robot a lot more to guide that accelerated hunk of metal.

for real agency though—pedal!

-

eta: a full article here: https://www.icebike.org/texting-and-driving/

some awful stats in it. distracted drivers are a menace, and i’m tired of yelling at them.

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jennypenny
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by jennypenny »

@alphaville -- One of the messages in the book is that the incorporation of 'assistance' into automobiles is teaching us to be less attentive, exacerbating and perpetuating the problem instead of correcting it.

Maybe I should start another thread. It's more about agency and how humans are giving it up in subtle ways under the guise of what the author calls 'safetyism'. https://unherd.com/2020/05/the-hypocrisy-of-safetyism/


yeah, when I have the time I'll start a new thread

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

jennypenny wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:06 am
@alphaville -- One of the messages in the book is that the incorporation of 'assistance' into automobiles is teaching us to be less attentive, exacerbating and perpetuating the problem instead of correcting it.
i get the romantic idea of the driver on the road—i enjoy a nice drive on a scenic road, and i prefer stick shift to automatic gears—but historically, the distractions and carnage came way before the assistance.

the car phone and then the cell phone came first, and no matter how much we say “don’t text and drive” people keep texting and driving and watching tv and who knows what else on their phones.

even before that, i know drivers who could not have a conversation with passagers in the rear seat *without turning their heads to face the back* 🙈

and of course drinking and driving was always par for the course. driving while stoned too, but stoners are less aggressive than drunks. driving while senile? happens a lot these days, especially with old people who don’t have family to drive them around.

most people don’t drive for sport or as a hobby, but for transportation to some job they’re required to be at, or to do chores they need to complete, from one strip mall to the next, from doctor’s office to pharmacy, etc. and a great part of them are going to be on zombie mode no matter what they drive.

so i say let them have an AI chauffeur, and enjoy their wheel of fortune, do their business calls, or play video games, or get soused on the way to a restaurant.

whoever wants to *really* drive for sport can get a classic or custom car.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I haven’t (yet) read “Shop Class as Soulcraft” , but Ivan Illich attempts similar argument in “Tools for Conviviality.”
For instance, he writes that one problem with cars is that average human can’t fix one with simple tools. Another problem would be that the massive interstate highway systems impose the need for safety at that speed and smoothness on all vehicles.

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

old car vs new car crash

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g

and this guy always cracks me up

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U2z1qH5OAgA

eta: bonus: “why old cars suck” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3uQv5yJJWxc

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

the point is not that difficult to get. exploration, play, freedom, skill, autonomy-- sure. car culture was founded on those myths. it’s not a new concept, everyone has been brainwashed on it.

but there are ways to get all those experiences and challenges, and beat mental and spiritual atrophy, in places other than the gas-guzzling hellish traffic we’re created, which necessitates expanded safety mechanisms.

i’d suggest hiking, rock climbing, bicycle touring, skateboarding, carpentry, cooking, computer building, gardening, martial arts, piano playing, juggling, etc etc,—rather than the monster we unleashed on the planet, which kills so many people per year that if al qaeda was doing it, it would be the major news of the day every day.

again, a few people truly love the hobby, and more power to them, they have my full support. however, most people just require a daily driver car to commute and do tiresome chores.

as for the social aspect, we can achieve the same sort of collective self governance without the ultimate killing machine.

e.g see:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gjLZv3Y0CWM

[eta: this was in response to a post that was deleted]

Jason
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Jason »

Haven't it read it but podcasted interview.

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Drive-Tow ... 0062741969

The thesis is that automative AI technology self-consciously militates against the ingrained American Kerouac On The Road ideal because it's ultimately not an either/or proposition. The teleos is the techno-city and the techno-city requires techno-highways and techno-highways require that all the cars be techno-cars. The largest player in the field is Google the largest advertising company and data collection company in the world. It's obvious why they want to control the auto industry. NVDIA just created a partnership with Mercedes Benz. It's Elon Musk's universe now. The Beach Boys daddy took my T-Bird away world is gone. If there is Brian Wilson statue out there on some California beach, it is soon to be toppled by a bunch of recent liberal arts graduates sharing an Uber. My small stake in Cerence has doubled this year. Marvell is all over it. It's a grand plan. Not in my lifetime. But not too long afterwards. The first move, the politicization of the car as an environmental hazard, was the first step.

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

Jason wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:26 pm
The first move, the politicization of the car as an environmental hazard, was the first step.
but it is an environmental hazard, and everything is political
Last edited by Alphaville on Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jason
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Jason »

Ralph Nader introduced the environmental issue in the 60's but it took fifty years to truly grab hold of a generation and change the country's ethos towards the freedom of the road. People knew about the environmental issues but didn't care. A Corvette was a blow job on wheels. And the movement truly didn't take hold until a technological alternative was a possibility. Escalades were a status symbol a mere ten years ago. We now live in a world where the goal is to remove human imperfection. Self-driving not only diminishes environmental issues but eliminates "bad drivers."

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

to steal an expression from merlin mann: you can’t politicize a political issue the same way you can’t pregnantize a pregnant woman.

(http://www.43folders.com/2009/04/28/priorities You can't "prioritize" a list of 20 tasks any more than you can "uniqueify" 20 objects by "uniqueness," or "pregnantitze" 20 women by "pregnantness." Each of those words means something. )

the automobile, the auto industry, the fuel and rubber industries, the industrial/commercial booms and colonial enterprises and wars around them, the changes in urban planning, the assembly plant, etc, were political since way before ralph nader was an embryo.

environmental concerns may have been on the background previously but they were always present.

Jason
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Jason »

To steal an expression from Prince in his treatise on late 20th century American car culture "Little Red Corvette: "I guess I must be dumb, because you had a pocket full of horses, trojans some of them used."

Although, I think he might have been commenting on a different rubber industry.

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

20th century car culture is just old-time relijun

anyway here’s a brief history of latex

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_rubber_boom

Jason
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Jason »

Thanks for the cut and paste. But contextualizing every single micro topic of discussion in a basic AP History 101 macro context of global industrial military complex hegemony, I personally find to be (to quote some Ancient Roman guy) "reductio ad absurdum" as interesting historical particularities get lost when one relentlessly resorts to using the widest zoom lens on the hermeneutical camera.

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

Jason wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:40 pm
Thanks for the cut and paste. But contextualizing every single micro topic of discussion in a basic AP History 101 macro context of global industrial military complex hegemony, I personally find to be (to quote some Ancient Roman guy) "reductio ad absurdum" as interesting historical particularities get lost when one relentlessly resorts to using the widest zoom lens on the hermeneutical camera.
right, because reductio ad fellatio is everything one needs instead

Jason
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Jason »

Everything, no. But one cannot discuss the history of American car culture and not address its influence on sexual mores. As well as its influence on religious mores (mobility provided people more choices in their places of worship). Or ideas of personal and cultural expression (the car was foundational to the creation of the teenager as a transitional demographic in the 1950's and the subsequent Beat Generation). There was a popular band "The Cars" (RIP RIc). And all these micro topics are changing as cars are moving into AI. And it is having a profound impact on how America looks at itself. I find it interesting. I mean, I'm not going out and writing a PHD on these things, but its fun/interesting to discuss them before one goes pedal to the critical theory metal and we end up taking a dump in the "everything is political" dirty truck stop restroom before we have a chance to stop for ice cream at the corn hole palace.

Edit: Apologies to JP as I realize she brought up book in previous post, although she doesn't appear to be the hyper sensitive type.

Alphaville
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Re: Rapidly Changing Automotive Technology

Post by Alphaville »

i’m fine with a conversation about the cultural history of the car, but my objection was specific to the notion that the environmental issues associated with the car had been “politicized.” environmental issues are political, not politicized.

the term “politicized” in our current cultural context is used to paint an issue as the sheer invention of political agitators, with no reality outside of ideological programs. like when old people complain about colin kaepernick “politicizing” football.

and what declaring something “politicized” really means is “i was comfortable with the past politics of the situation, but the current politics make me uncomfortable.”

but regardless of the comfort of incumbents, when people can’t breathe—whether due to covid, or police knee to the neck, or vehicular pollution, or explosive deforestation—the politics of the situation will undergo change.

so we can look at car culture and the politics of car culture at the same time because they’re one and the same.

i understand people clinging to the romantic myth of the automobile, because the dreams of the open road without externalities or tradeoffs was so nice, it really was nice, but it was a myth painted with a heavy political brush at a time when what was good for general motors was good for america. however, gm is no longer what it once was and so it had to be rescued from bankruptcy.

there really is a generational fracture here, and environmental issues are more vital than boomer nostalgia to teenagers today who plan to live for the next 60 or 80 or 100 years— and on this matter i’m siding with the kids.

i’d say “burn it all down already,” but cleanup and recycle would be the responsible thing to do :lol:

having said all this, i’m not expecting any sort of green utopia brought to you by google.

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