Talk Me Into Buying a Car

[Gilberto de Piento]

My current car is from 2000 and has 135,000 miles. It is still reliable (it made a 14 hour each way trip this summer) but it doesn't feel like it due to the constant need for maintenance. On average over the last two years it has cost me $120 per month (not including gas or insurance, just maintenance like fuel pump, tires, brakes, etc.). I do almost all my own work but it still costing money. It's getting rough looking too, with rust holes and hail damage.

I keep watching craigslist for other cars and I come across cars often that would be good replacements. For example, this week there was a 20,000 mile 2004 for $4300 and a 40,000 mile 2003 for $4900. These low mileage cars are hard to get ahold of but I've done it before. I could probably sell my car for $1000 to $1500, so the investment in a new one would be about $3000.

$3000 is less than two months savings for me but I'm having trouble buying something. I know that over the next few years a low mileage car that doesn't need any maintenance will probably save me money or at least break even compared to my existing maintenance costs and I won't have to worry so much if I drive it far from home. Even though I know it would be better economically to buy a different car I have programmed myself to be so cheap that I can't seem to pull the trigger. Any advice on this?

[Ydobon]

Could you lose the car and hire one for occasional road trips?

I'd happily lose my car, not going to happen with a baby tho.

[Gilberto de Piento]

I live in an urban area and bike everywhere most days so I'm close to being able to go car free. The problem is that I take a lot of 1-2 hour drives to do outdoors activities on weekends and take one or two week long car based vacations per year. I haven't run the numbers in detail but I don't think renting would be a good deal when I'd be doing it every other weekend. Also, I'm just not mentally there yet as I like having a car when I need one.

[vexed87]

...Also, I'm just not mentally there yet as I like having a car when I need one.

In my experience you are only "there" once you are forced by a drastic change. The urge to just hop in the car is difficult to overcome if its easy to access.

[George the original one]

It's getting rough looking too, with rust holes and hail damage.

The mileage and repairs don't bother me, but rust holes are a good reason to ditch the current car unless you have time & talent with a welder.

[JL13]

If you've decided you want to have a car, the the expense of the replacement has already been incurred - you just haven't been amortizing it.

It sucks sinking money into an ugly car, might as well replace it.

[cmonkey]

At 120/month maintenance you would be net positive on a 3K investment after 2 years and that's assuming you don't have any maintenance on the new car. Generally you get what you pay for and so getting a cheaper car will mean more maintenance. Personally I wouldn't get a new car unless the tranny or engine blew, or you're spending at least double what a replacement would be on an annual basis.

[JL13]

I ran across this interesting chart the other day:

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanc ... _per_mile/

[akratic]

persuasion attempt #1: Evaluate the ROI of the car investment. Say maintenance on the new car costs $400/yr and the old one is $1,400/yr. Then you net +$1k/yr from a one time $3k investment. That ROI is way higher than the market, and is a superior use of your savings.

persuasion attempt #2: You need $48k invested at 3% to forever cover this $1.4k/yr car maintenance expense. If you can reduce or eliminate the expense for less than $48k, then you're ahead.

persuasion attempt #3: Stop thinking in terms of dollars and think in terms of life-energy. Having a car needing so much maintenance is even more expensive than it seems because it takes your precious time in addition to your $120/mo.

[henrik]

I ran across this interesting chart the other day:

This could be made even more interesting to account for the costs of holding what MMM calls "automotive inventory".

[JL13]

Stop thinking in terms of dollars and think in terms of life-energy.

Yeah this is kind of how i feel about it. The difference in cost between newer cheap car and an older cheap car is small enough to just be statistical noise. Consider that a new Porsche can cost a similar amount to a new Camry and less than a new truck over 5 year ownership (when you factor in gas and depreciation etc). The BIG decision is car or no car. Once you've made that decision, the next major decision is whether to spend $5,000 or $50,000. If you're debating between spending $10,000 or $2,000, you're too deep in the details it's not even worth analyzing IMO. There are too many unknowns.

[Gilberto de Piento]

Thanks everyone. I especially liked Akratic's logic and the MMM article. The existing car does take a lot of "life energy" and time on my part. I'm going to start taking my car search seriously now.

It's too bad I like to travel so much or I'd be a great candidate for going car free.

[JL13]

NIce. What you driving now? I'm a recovering car-guy. Would love to vicariously shop through you.

[thrifty++]

I live in an urban area and bike everywhere most days so I'm close to being able to go car free. The problem is that I take a lot of 1-2 hour drives to do outdoors activities on weekends and take one or two week long car based vacations per year. I haven't run the numbers in detail but I don't think renting would be a good deal when I'd be doing it every other weekend. Also, I'm just not mentally there yet as I like having a car when I need one.

I have been amazed at how easy it is to get anywhere without a car. As for special activities and outdoorsy stuff I always manage to catch a ride with a friend or a stranger. So many meet up groups and ride share options. Or on rare occasions I rent a car or even borrow a car from friends. Saves me thousands per year

[Gilberto de Piento]

NIce. What you driving now? I'm a recovering car-guy. Would love to vicariously shop through you.

I used to be a car/motorcycle guy too but I never had anything very impressive due to a lack of money and an unwillingness to take on debt. The current car is American and about as generic as can be. I'm curious what El Duderino has though - I just remembered that he mentioned a "tuner car" for a project in his journal. We should ask him about it.

I have been amazed at how easy it is to get anywhere without a car. As for special activities and outdoorsy stuff I always manage to catch a ride with a friend or a stranger.

I have a couple of friends that don't have cars. It can work and I'm sure it saves money but it also has caused a lot of hassles with rides cancelling at the last minute. I'd rather be the person with the car and collect gas money.

[ether]

Have you considered leasing a car? You can lease a car for $150-$200/month and that roughly equal to your maintenance cost and it saves you time.

[peerifloori]

I bought a '97 Subaru Legacy with 150K miles for ~$3000. They frequently last for ~300K miles. The only maintenance I've had to do in the last 2 years is regular oil changes. I could probably sell it for the same price I bought it, too. Gas mileage is fairly crappy, but the AWD is handy in the winter and I don't drive many miles. Insurance is quite cheap, too.

I believe there are other cars that have very good reliability for long lifespans, too, but I've been happy with my car. I did do a ton of research on the years/models I was interested in, and had a mechanic check it out before I bought it. Worth the time and money, in my opinion.

Although, I spent the first 27 years of my life without a car and I'd go back to walking and biking in a heartbeat if I lived somewhere that made it feasible.

[JL13]

The only maintenance I've had to do in the last 2 years is regular oil changes. I could probably sell it for the same price I bought it, too.

Depreciation and maintenance/repairs don't really amortize smoothly. You can have 2 years with no R&M and no depreciation, and then one year you need $4,000 in parts and all of the sudden it's worth $1,800 in the secondhand market rather than the $2,500 you paid.

If you dance in and out of ownership - there's a chance your costs could be minimal, but it's something of a crap shoot IMO.

[bryan]

I have been amazed at how easy it is to get anywhere without a car. As for special activities and outdoorsy stuff I always manage to catch a ride with a friend or a stranger. So many meet up groups and ride share options. Or on rare occasions I rent a car or even borrow a car from friends. Saves me thousands per year

indeed. I once went a few months without a car in Dallas, tx, a place that was widely regarded as the least pedestrian and bicycle friendly city in the US. Rode my bike everywhere with the occasional ride from a friend for social events too far on the weekend evenings.

eventually I bought a $2k car due to missing some social events that were too far to bike to and hadn't lined up rides from friends. used the car a few years and sold it for $1k under duress.. car before that was better: bought for $500 and got $1400 for it after about 8 years.

[Sclass]

I had several pals in grad school who had similar parameters as you who just rented a car on weekends. It was a lot cheaper than owning. He asked me why I owned two cars, a motorcycle, a bicycle and rollerblades. On the math he had me beat no question.

I guess I could be sloppier and more spontaneous. It opened up a lot of interactions hat would not have happened without the car. One car was a station wagon so it rocked on keg runs, taco breaks, ski trips, beach days, and camping trips. I could pack 8 people in that thing with the jump seats out back (the person who designed backwards facing wagon seats for kids was an idiot). I cannot put a price on those times. Looking back, over analyzing the car or no car decision would have been a mistake. I'll never be able to buy those experiences again.

That said my cars were used beaters that I spun the wrench on. If parts are expensive and you have time, do as he poor do and hit the junkyard. When I saw dudes pulling brake pads I felt rich. Keep the expense in the noise and you'll only see it when you calculate down to it when you obsess about saving a dollar.

While moving this summer I got pinched where I had a brokend down car and I didn't have a bicycle to hit three auto suppliers to gather parts and tools to do the fix. I used Uber and walking. It worked really well and made me rethink my motor vehicle fetish.