Talk Me Into Buying a Car

[El Duderino]

Consider that a new Porsche can cost a similar amount to a new Camry and less than a new truck over 5 year ownership (when you factor in gas and depreciation etc).

Huh? Depreciation on a Porsche is still pretty steep in the first few years, especially on Cayennes, they just level off after a while, similar to the other brands of that ilk. A new GT3RS, if picked up at new for sticker could net you around 150K positive return, if Chris Harris is to be believed in this excellent video.

People who see cars as an appliance and can make sensible decisions about them confuse me because I don't know how they avoided the obvious beartrap where I did a faceplant long ago.

[El Duderino]

I had several pals in grad school who had similar parameters as you who just rented a car on weekends. It was a lot cheaper than owning. He asked me why I owned two cars, a motorcycle, a bicycle and rollerblades. On the math he had me beat no question.

I guess I could be sloppier and more spontaneous. It opened up a lot of interactions hat would not have happened without the car. One car was a station wagon so it rocked on keg runs, taco breaks, ski trips, beach days, and camping trips. I could pack 8 people in that thing with the jump seats out back (the person who designed backwards facing wagon seats for kids was an idiot). I cannot put a price on those times. Looking back, over analyzing the car or no car decision would have been a mistake. I'll never be able to buy those experiences again.

That said my cars were used beaters that I spun the wrench on. If parts are expensive and you have time, do as he poor do and hit the junkyard. When I saw dudes pulling brake pads I felt rich. Keep the expense in the noise and you'll only see it when you calculate down to it when you obsess about saving a dollar.

Right on, man. Getting an excuse to try the junkyard for a used part here and there can be a lot of fun and always a learning experience. So many deals to be had.

[Sclass]

Consider that a new Porsche can cost a similar amount to a new Camry and less than a new truck over 5 year ownership (when you factor in gas and depreciation etc).

Huh? Depreciation on a Porsche is still pretty steep in the first few years, especially on Cayennes, they just level off after a while, similar to the other brands of that ilk. A new GT3RS, if picked up at new for sticker could net you around 150K positive return, .

Yeah the prices are all over the map for Porsche. As a kid I always wanted an 80s 911. I'm a little stunned by their depreciation curve. It has outstripped my wealth appreciation and desire to own one. The worst is the 993 models. Wow is all I can say. If you bought at the right time you might have had a break even after driving the thing around a few years when you eventually sell. Old 996s are disposed of for the price of a new transmission and crank.

As for the OP, the car gives me freedom of movement. Maybe you should dump the beater and go car free for awhile. With all the beaters on CL you can start up again in a few days if you change your mind.

[JL13]

Yeah the prices are all over the map for Porsche.

I don't mean a used Porsche, I mean a new one.

[OldPro]

I always laugh when people start talking about car or no car etc.

A car is NOT a logical decision no matter what anyone says or how they try to show that it is. If your legs still work as nature intended, then you don't need a car to exist. The question is do you want to exist that way. Presumably you have a plan to FIRE if you are posting in this forum, so the only question then is does your plan allow for owning a car or not. Don't try to justify owning a car, it really can't be done but what can be done is to plan to own one AND FIRE.

I've owned various classic cars over the years and often people see that as being something that means you have 'money' as in more than the average. The reality is you can own classic cars and not have any more money than anyone else but people often don't realize that. It's a perception, not a reality they see. I simply prefer classic cars because I like them more and don't find that they cost any more to own and maintain than a more 'normal' boring box of a car.

I used to think about what a car cost me until one day I parked in front of a bar and went in for a drink. A guy came in and asked the bartender, 'who's driving that car?' and the bartender pointed to me. The guy then asked me, 'how come you are driving a car like that' and before I could answer, the person sitting next to me responded and said, 'because he can.'

While what the guy was asking and what the other guy replied meant something entirely different to both of them, what I suddenly realized was in fact that the answer was the only real answer to that question. I drive a car (whatever car that I want) because I CAN and no other answer is needed.

I can drive a nice (in my opinion) car AND still manage to FIRE. IF someone believes they have to do without a car in order to FIRE then I'd say what differs between them and me is that they aren't as good at figuring out how to FIRE as I am. Is it better to spend less or is it better to be able to afford what you need to be happy with your life?

I FIRED at 43 and can afford a car, justifying the car is something I do not need to do. And no, I do not do my own maintenance either. I can afford to pay for maintenance including a simple oil change. A FIRE plan should be about being able to live life the way you WANT to live life, not just being able to exist on the minimum amount of money physically possible. Sometimes, no make that often, I find that some people here are so busy concentrating on how to save money, they lose sight of what the goal should be. To ENJOY life without having to work for a living. That's a successful FIREing.

[JL13]

In other words, get the Porsche!

[El Duderino]

Gilberto, aren't you at least a little bit thrilled by the idea of upgrading to a nicer car? If you only use it on the weekends and for vacations, is there an opportunity to get a unique vehicle that stands out and becomes a special object for you?

[startbyserving]

My abilities on Maintenance are very limited. - Change oil , Brakes (Not extremely well), Etc. Yet, I've broke even, or make money on the majority or cars I have purchased. (Including cost of repairs!) It sounds like you have a lot more abilities than I do and you have a keen eye on the right car to buy. (Older car with low miles.) Sounds like you should ditch your current car.

- That said. I'd like to bring up the idea of 'cost per mile' which I gather you already understand. I typically rent cars for the majority of my trips. If I consider depreciation between $.10 and .$20 a mile , most of my trips are worth renting a car. (I've decided that my time isn't worth hunting for deals. Even if I sell my current car for what I paid for it, I don't want to take the time to look for another. Also there is no guarantee I will find deals indefinitely. I can further explain my reasoning for depreciation further if anyone wants.)
- If I could do without a car the majority of the time, I would very much consider saving on costs like insurance and renting cars for other travel.
- I do understand and relate to your concerns though. I'm married and could probably do away with my car if I truly wanted. (2 car household). - However I haven't made time in my daily schedule to go from a 30 minute car ride, to a 110 minute bus ride.
(Yes, I could see this as saving 30 minutes rather than costing 40 minutes, if I could find a way to be productive on the bus. However I am already fairly productive in the car. I listen to informative CDs, Make phone calls I would otherwise have to make in the office, etc. Also persons on the bus can be distracting sometimes.)

Anyways, best of luck on your decisions.

Update:

FYI: I use a hands free handset and I spend the majority of my time on hold. (I am NOT in a state that requires headsets.)

I am aware of idiots on the road as well as people that are equally extreme to the other way. (Last week someone entering a cross walk on the OTHER side of the street yelled at my wife for not stopping.)

I will continue to drive in a way that minimizes my chance of being in any accident. Whether that is from a distracted driver (Texting), a driver that feels they own the road (Cutting in and out of traffic, etc.), or panicked stricken driver whose anxiety causes them to make poor decisions. (I.e. - Person that stops instead of merging while entering interstate or similar place). I apologize for anytime I have ever put anyone's life at risk.

[OldPro]

Using a phone in your car is one of the stupidest things drivers do. http://www.distraction.gov/stats-resear ... stics.html

I really don't care if you want to risk your own life but it pisses me off that you also risk MY life.

[peerifloori]

Using a phone in your car is one of the stupidest things drivers do. http://www.distraction.gov/stats-resear ... stics.html

I really don't care if you want to risk your own life but it pisses me off that you also risk MY life.

Word. This includes hands-free phones!

I remember reading a study they did somewhere that correlated the decrease in reaction time to the distance of the person they were talking to on the phone, like they were slower to react if they were talking to someone on the other side of the country as opposed to talking to someone in the same town. I can't find it now, maybe I imagined it. Brains are many funny things.

[OldPro]

There is no question that there is a direct correlation between distracted driving and accidents. It really doesn't even take a study for you to know that must be true. It doesn't matter what that distraction is, it's bad.

It is even a distraction if you are talking to a passenger while driving. Have you ever seen the car weaving down the road with the husband and wife quite obviously having an argument in the car? I've seen that quite a few times. My own brother is terrible when talking while driving. His attention to the road and traffic is very clearly impaired. I try not to talk to him when he's driving. The problem is he focuses his attention on the subject of discussion to too high a degree.

It isn't easy to enforce laws about distracted driving. You can in fact by stopped and ticketed for driving with a cup of coffee in your hand if the police choose to enforce the law. But how practical is that?

However, when car manufacturers start adding things that specifically encourage distracted driving, why can't that be legislated against? If you are old enough, you might remember cars that came with NO cup holders. Now people complain if they won't hold their jumbo drink cup. They are an accepted norm and it would probably hurt sales of a car if it came without any.

Now you see the ads on tv for cars with a smartphone docking station, USB ports on the dash, the best Bluetooth connectivity of any car and my favourite, an ad for a car boasting it comes with the biggest LCD display of any make of car. If you think about it, what they are saying is 'hey, we will help you become distracted from your real job of driving the car.

I am 100% with the NTSB on this one when they advocate a 100% ban. http://www.pcworld.com/article/246202/n ... e_ban.html

Their example is eye opening. "The NTSB's recent recommendations were inspired by a multivehicle accident in Gray Summit, Mo., in August 2010. The accident claimed the lives of two people and 38 others were injured. The driver of the pickup truck that caused the accident sent and received 11 text messages during the 11 minutes leading up to the crash. The last text message was received moments before the collision." That is 40 people's lives impacted all because one asshole was texting.

The phone and car manufacturers could easily add a Bluetooth connection function to every phone and car that disables your phone when you get in your car. But they won't do it unless they are forced to do it by legislation. Yes people will scream, just like so many screamed when seat belts became mandatory in cars. Sometimes though laws need to be passed that protect people from themselves and if not to protect themselves, protect ME from those people.

[henrik]

The ever bigger dashboard touch screens in new cars make me worry as well, it does not look like a smart way to go.

[OldPro]

I watched an ad on tv last night for a new car. It was showing how their car was better than the competitor's car. One 'feature' that was 'better' was that you could ask (as in speak) the car to show you some suggested local restaurants and up would pop a list of 5 on the dashboard screen.

Presumably, you then look at the list, read them, see what kind of food (Thai, French, etc.), maybe find a rating on cost, etc. and then pick one. When you pick one, the computer then gives you directions to get there.

I am sure people will do this while driving. Yet they show this is an example of how their car is better. No doubt when that driver causes an accident and a victim tries to sue the car manufacturer for being part of the cause, the car company will turn around and say, 'oh no, we are not responsible for someone using our product irresponsibly.'

[Ego]

Not sure if you are a Californian but I just saw this (pdf)....
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/efmp_plus_up.pdf

The California Air Resource Board is initiating a pilot project in the Greater Los Angeles area and San Joaquin Valley to help low-income individuals and families get rid of old polluting vehicles and purchase much cleaner and more fuel-efficient cars. The program works by providing increasingly larger cash payments for the lowest-income families to move up to the very cleanest cars. Under this program, for example, it is possible for a family that meets the income guidelines to receive $12,000 toward the purchase of an electric car.

If you scrap an old, dirty car but choose not to replace it, you are also eligible for vouchers for public
transit passes, between $2,500 and $4,500 in value, depending on your income level.

I've got low income this year. Wish I had a junker to scrap.

[enigmaT120]

Buy one somewhere. You could come up to Oregon and buy some junker that will just run well enough to get you back home. I don't envy you that drive though.

That's cool that the vouchers can apply to transit passes. I wonder if there's anything to help you get a nice bike.