What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

All the different ways of solving the shelter problem. To be static or mobile? Roots, legs, or wheels?
Riggerjack
Posts: 3182
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by Riggerjack »

Though, I expect if we count labor at $10/HR, ego still has all these solutions beat. It works for him, but is way too people intensive for me, thus my land yaught solution.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@James_0011:

According to internet test I took on some other thread, I am core true-blue libertarian in my political orientation, so I guess I don't care about whether solution is legal, but the various likely costs of the civil infraction should be included in calculation. Also, any solution that is known to be in violation of code couldn't really qualify as robust.

@Riggerjack: I wish your suggestion would work, but here is the code to which I am subject (sigh...) (bold italics mine)
§ 150.062 BLIGHT PROHIBITED.
(A) Blight. It is hereby determined that the following structures, uses and activities are causes of or factors encouraging blight which, if allowed to exist, will tend to result in blighted and undesirable neighborhoods.
(B) Blighting factors prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person(s) to maintain or permit to be maintained any of the following causes of blight upon any property in the city owned, leased, rented or occupied by these person(s):
..........

(2) Residential zoning. It shall be unlawful for any person to maintain or permit to be maintained in any area zoned for residential purposes:

............
(c) Park or store any licensed motor vehicle, mobile home, camper, boat or trailer or parts thereof in a rear yard, side yard or front yard unless same is on a concrete slab that prevents weeds and grass from growing underneath the vehicle, provided that no portion of the vehicle is stored in a residential driveway beyond the front wall of either of the two residential structures immediately adjacent to the driveway on which the vehicle is stored or parked;
I thought I had read all relevant code prior to purchase of camper, but only part of the relevant code was available on the city website. I had to dig up the entire code on American Legal Publishing site. I generally do not feel sorry for people who whine about contracts they entered into without due diligence, so I shall try to maintain some semblance of stiff upper lip and/or cheerful acceptance and/or spiritual transcendence of sunk cost.

Also, I am interested in the general rule of thumb. I agree that Ego's solution is very good if he spends less than 30 hours/month on caretaker duties. I could occupy the Princess room of my mother's luxury apartment in affluent district for free indefinitely in exchange for minor help with various tasks, but ...

sky
Posts: 1726
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by sky »

So if a concrete slab mysteriously appears and you roll your camper on to it, you would be in compliance?

Riggerjack
Posts: 3182
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by Riggerjack »

But independence has value. I understand.

So, Detroit, with its singular issue with blight, came up with their own standard. And it shall be concrete, for look at all the inspirational beauty it has already brought to your fine city.

So... Concrete is easy. Mudpies, written large. To be sure, doing concrete to professional standards has a learning curve and is lots of work, however, this isn't a standard the city requires of you. You need concrete, so the weeds don't grow.

There are many ways to do this. Throw bags of cement (concrete, without sand or gravel) on the ground till it in, roll it flat, move your camper, done. (Though I would use a reinforcing mesh) This is technically soilcrete, but will serve your purpose, and is as easy or hard as you choose. Since it is mainly soil, it isn't concrete gray,and you can add dyes. Go crazy with it.

And you can go crazy with it. Look at tufa, make planters, do landscaping, for insulation, use foam and cover in tufta. Cement is cheap, $10/100lb bag at HD.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@sky: Right, except I have also been informed that I will not likely be granted permit to construct such a slab on an otherwise vacant lot. If I wish to reside within walking distance of my garden project, my least expensive solution will be to rent a basement efficiency apartment. If I wish to reside in my camper, my BF says I can park it on the 11 wooded rural acres he might be buying, but I will probably have to help him plant ginseng.

@Riggerjack: To quote just a bit from the Concrete Flatwork Permit Application to which I am subject (if I am ever to be granted permit)

"...shall be minimum of 4 inches thick throughout and shall be placed on a four inch compacted sand or aggregate base...shall have a minimum compressive strength, at 28 days, of three thousand two hundred pounds per square inch...grading plan shall be provided for all new concrete placement...etc. etc. etc."

I even considered hiring an old Italian contractor that my BF knows, but...

I was attempting to create a model for permaculture that might allow city dwellers to survive post-peak-oil, but now I am figuring that they are just doomed.

Riggerjack
Posts: 3182
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by Riggerjack »

I was attempting to create a model for permaculture that might allow city dwellers to survive post-peak-oil, but now I am figuring that they are just doomed.
Well, yeah. That's why they are called city dwellers. There is good reason for the max pre oil city populations. This is a self solving problem. I recommend not sticking around to see it in action.

But, my opinion on cities is well documented. I'm here to solve this issue.
I thought I had read all relevant code prior to purchase of camper, but only part of the relevant code was available on the city website. I had to dig up the entire code on American Legal Publishing site.
Nobody is entirely in compliance, ever. Most of the time, people do the same things they have always done, in the same way they have always done it. They aren't checking the rules, and are blissfully unaware of all the rules they are breaking.

You, are looking at a city blight code. It has one set of rules. Then you are looking at building code, and trying to conform to both. This is possible, and not even that difficult, but not what I would consider effective use of your resources, in your situation.

Building code is valuable, but it's main value is in making sure that something you bought, reached a certain minimum standard. If you pull a slab permit, you are asking to be judged on the standards of the building code. That is your choice.

The antiblight code wants to ensure you are not making an eye sore of parking a car and letting the grass grow. Look at the parts you edited out. They talk about not having garbage in your yard, and mowing your grass, right? ( I had to deal with this with a tenant)

Dealing with these codes separately, as they were written is the key to success. You are not creating a permanent concrete slab as part of a residence. You are doing nothing that involves planning or permits. You are landscaping. If you have any doubts, think of how you would sell your lot. It would be sold as an unimproved vacant lot, right? So nothing you are doing would be of interest to the assessor ( tax value of improvements). Nothing you are doing will result in a transferable building, so nobody needs to be protected from your noncompliant workmanship. So no planners or inspectors from the planners. All you need to do is satisfy the inspector from the Dept that handles blight code enforcement. And for that, you need a concrete slab.

Concrete is a generic term, and soilcrete fits within it. Different formulations of concrete have different strengths, but a 20% cement content in your soil will be tough enough to work for weed control for as long as you like. That is how I would go in your shoes.

But, that is a lot of work. It would be easier to just form it, and call for the concrete to be delivered. Use 2x6's, and dig your perimeter down a bit. Then your slab is 5.5 inches at the edge, and 4 inches throughout. Do it right and you can cut nothing. Look at YouTube videos on pouring concrete, it's work, but nothing you and the 11 year old helper you pull in to help can't handle. 4 boards make your form, another board longer than your 2 shortest is your screed. The truck pours, ( you can find small batch premixed concrete near you. Delivery should be $100-130/yard. 1 yard of concrete is 27 cubic feet, or 81 square feet, 4" thick.) you move concrete with gardening tools, screed, finish with a broom, and you are done. And building code compliant. ( but then you would have to pull a permit, and schedule an inspection before you pour...)

This is not insurmountable, this is a hard day's work for you and a tween. Or a short day's work for a BF. But if you go that route, bring beer and smiles.

Riggerjack
Posts: 3182
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by Riggerjack »

In a separate thread, I talked about law being created by enforcement, as a practical guide. Code enforcement officers get calls from irritable citizens all the time. They then go out, tag the offender, and move thru the enforcement process. Warning, follow up warning, fine, fine, fine, civil courts, and eventually jail.

But, that all takes time. And can be endd by showing compliance. I'm guessing you started this thread because step 1 and 2 have already happened, and now you are trying to find the best solution to show compliance? If not, then just mowing and keeping a good looking yard will probably suffice.

Selling your camper is the easiest solution, but contrary to your other goals.

After that, a simple slab is the easiest way to get this done, I think.

ether
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:50 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by ether »

Crazy idea, but have you thought about just building a large fence around your property? Neighbors won't complain since they can't see your RV...

sky
Posts: 1726
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by sky »

I suspect that if you were to put in a concrete slab, they would keep finding other problems and violations. Somebody complained and they don't want anybody living in a trailer in the city.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by BRUTE »

7Wannabe5 could simply take this as an excuse to learn how to build a simple house. might be a fun summer project, and a skill that could pay off. if kept to a single story height, how hard can it be?

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Riggerjack@ether: I am afraid that sky might be correct. I don't think that anybody complained. I just suffered the misfortune of being one of the many targets of a recently funded blight sweep initiative. Every business owner with weeds higher than 5 inches in the alley was also served notice. This is just too tiny of a fishbowl to expect to escape notice for very long. Anyways, I don't think it is worth the expense and/or bother to attempt to get into compliance if I can't use the camper for any purpose beyond tool storage. I'll just sell or move the camper and get some kind of storage box I can lock to the back fence.

@BRUTE: I'm not terribly interested in building a standard small house that would tie into the grid according to code, etc. My camper parked on permaculture in city was sort of an attempt to jump right out of the Industrial Age, past the Scarcity Age, and into the Scavenger Age. I would be interested in designing and building a house that would go one step further into the EcoTechnic Age. I think I would have better luck in getting support for a battle against current code with a plan for something that seems like a cool house of the future rather than a recreational vehicle in which a deplorable might reside (sigh.)

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

One of the many (12-16 ish) Principles of Permaculture is - Obtain a yield – “You can't work on an empty stomach." The system that is my permaculture project is part of the system that is my lifestyle which is also inclusive of the system which is ERE toolkit based FI project. Therefore, I was hoping that one of the yields of my permaculture project would be very low expense shelter. Since I have hit a big rubber bumper or something analogous to a serious stumper in that corner of the puzzle, part of what I am trying to decide is whether I shouldn't just take it as a given that it is virtually impossible to reduce expenses below a level that would require income generating passive investments of at least $150,000/year?

It just seems so arbitrary to me. Maybe I am not doing a very good job at explaining. If you look at the 3% or 4% factor that is assigned to SWR, you can kind of sort of tie that number to economic growth, human population, and desire to increase standard of living. So, is it also the case that the rock bottom price of shelter, which is the largest component of rock bottom life-style expenditure, is tied to something like fertile land area/human population disease vector stratification + maintenance of human body temperature factor?

IOW, everybody has to eat and drink and stay warm and everybody has to poop, and the ability to carry out these functions at various levels of tolerance for likelihood of disease due to overcrowding or depletion due to overuse is dependent on population density mitigated by technology. For instance, my sister and her BF and his teenage daughter every-other-week inhabit a very small, very expensive 1 bedroom apartment in a chi-chi part of Brooklyn and there is likely some similar household occupying realm of similar population density in some slummy part of some slummy city at much lower expense because the disease/crime rate is higher.

MY problem is due to the fact that code is archaic relative to science and technology. However, MY problem may soon become almost everybody's problem as resources become increasingly scarce. For instance, in most parts of the US it is against code to reprocess gray water within a private residence, but in a few parts of the US where water is already in short supply, new houses must be constructed to include gray water reprocessing within the residence. I would estimate that the percentage of people who know that human urine is unlikely to contain pathogens and useful as source of nitrogen for the garden is approximately equal to the percentage of people who could pass an 8th grade mathematics competency exam, and the cost to society of maintaining technology/practice that makes use of gallons of potable water to remove urine from residential system is ???$$$ compared to not yet code-compliant alternative.

Toska2
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by Toska2 »

Sorry 7wannabe5. I believe the community's resident/100 sq ft living space will rise by stamping out "blight". Thus the utilization of public roads and utilities will go up saving the environment more than a few fringe people that get caught by archaic code.

It's true that permaculture relies on longer term planning. You're a least a decade and a Wheaton level past what they can imagine.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Toska2: What you suggest might be true overall for the vast expanse of blighted, depopulated realms in and around Detroit. However, the tiny city within a city where I own property is already the most densely populated political jurisdiction in Michigan at over 10,000 people/sq. mile. I figured buying the land was a pretty anti-fragile move because I could snatch up more land on the cheap if things got worse, and I could sell at a goodly profit if gentrification occurred. If the scale is now tipping towards gentrification, then the population density will actually likely go down because urban-hipster-yuppies do not generally have 3 kids and 2 grandparents living with them like the refugee immigrant families who are now most of the inhabitants. Virtually all of the housing in this area consists of two story duplexes with approximately 800 sq. ft. on each floor. They were originally built to house the first wave of immigrants that worked for the auto companies and related industries in the early part of the 20th century. At the height of production in the 1950s, the population density was twice what it is today, but current blight reduction initiatives are unlikely to cause boom in need for unskilled manufacturing workers with large families.

Anyways, I retain the luxury of being able to step outside of my experiment in post-industrial-scarcity/scavenger-age living, and back into posh lifestyle on a pittance in the age-of-wasteful-affluence, so this really is mostly just a fun puzzle for me.

sky
Posts: 1726
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by sky »

It is too bad that the city is interfering, that is a very interesting experiment that you are doing. How is the garden coming along?

I have a bid on a tax sale property but it is a minimum bid and will probably be outbid. The real estate market has changed a lot, now everybody wants to buy a house. I am bidding 2,300 on a rural acre with a small house in rough shape. I think it will go for 15,000.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@sky: The garden is coming along remarkably well and in accordance with plan. For instance, I had at least 5 varieties of fungi popping up in the soil around my fruit trees which I had attempted to alter towards woodlands-edge composition. If nothing else, I have taken my own knowledge/skill set up a couple solid notches through the work I have done so far on this project. I have learned enough on my own that I am no longer interested in paying or spending the time to attend a course/seminar on the topic. Keeping it in maintenance mode while I am elsewhere for the time being will likely cost me about $50/month, but I'm willing to eat that under 50/50 budget entry split of hobby/investment until I can decide how I want to proceed.

The housing market has bounced back but there are still some deals to be found in the rural areas outside the depressed cities where nobody can hope to find employment. I am contemplating buying some land on which to plop my camper and starting a second project spinning now rather than in 2022 which was my projected goal date for urban project. Of course, I will have to buy/insure/maintain a vehicle adequate for towing and transportation between urban and rural projects, so being able to live in the camper won't reduce my overall expenses.

User avatar
GandK
Posts: 2059
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:00 pm

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by GandK »

Just brainstorming here:

Is it possible to build a greenhouse structure on your lot within which a micro residence could be hidden? (Or would a greenhouse inherently violate some permaculture principle that I'm unaware of?)

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@GandK: A new greenhouse structure is part of my design. My first greenhouse was destroyed by the wind. However, I am now extremely pessimistic that any attempt at stealth as part of solution. Also, stealth really isn't my style. I'm also not very good at direct confrontation. I'm more the cheerful overt malicious compliant goodie-two-shoes looking for a loop-hole type. Like the kind of kid who keeps raising her hand over and over asking "Why..?" or otherwise seeking clarification or obeying letter-but-not-spirit until eventually wrong-minded person in authority caves.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

My BF just did deal to buy over 11 wooded acres with deeded access to Lake Huron, so my camper will now have a new home where I could theoretically live for free on something like venison and foraged sand cherries. Of course, this is provisional on continuation of relationship with BF, so not an FI solution, unless I were able to assign high probability to always being able to acquire a BF who would let me park my camper and garden/forage/hunt on his land*. Also, the hunting part is kind of dubious since although a previous highly security oriented SO did teach me how to shoot/clean gun etc., I may be lacking killer instinct.

*One thing I like about men, as opposed to members of my own gender, is that, IME, they are more likely to favorably respond to straight forward offers of contract such as online dating profile with clear terms offered.

enigmaT120
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: What is Minimum Head Tax and/or Price of Liberty?

Post by enigmaT120 »

It's OK to cry after you kill an animal.

I do wish offers of contract were more common and available.

Post Reply