Early Retirement Extreme Forums

@ML - It could be by "area flooded". Which is not a fractal problem (as far as I can intuit).

I moved to a different state (NYC to PXH) and cut my housing costs by 75℅.

A few months ago, I moved to a different state of mind and cut my housing costs by an additional 95℅ by living out of my car.

Moving to a different state will only save you so much. Moving to a different state of mind offers limitless possibilities....

@halfmoon

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been though Monroe many times heading up to Stevens Pass. Those outskirt areas of Seattle are moving up in price quickly and don't have a lot of rental inventory and rents are higher than one might think. It might not be bad but it's pretty far out there on the exterior. It has a pretty blue collar feel. Duvall is a nice place too, traffic can be intense as the sprawl pushes out there. Something really cool about Duvall and Monroe is you are close to many farms and can buy veggies direct from the farmers right at their farm all summer/fall

@mfi

I have enough money so I don't have to live in a car/van/RV. I just want to lower my overhead as much as I can to make my money last the next 40-50 years. I did look at full time RV-ing which I could do but I don't really want to be a nomad. I've moved around a fair amount in my life and I'd rather get some roots in a community and meet more friends, have a social life, etc...

I'm far from retired but looking to move to a different state as well to facilitate earlier retirement. Denver is great in many ways but costly and rising.

Lots of options for 2 DINKS, but there is more to a move than just packing up and hitting the road. House sale, new jobs, leaving behind friends and family. Easier to do when retired, no doubt.

Allagash wrote:@halfmoon

I've been though Monroe many times heading up to Stevens Pass. Those outskirt areas of Seattle are moving up in price quickly and don't have a lot of rental inventory and rents are higher than one might think.

You're absolutely right about that, which makes them desirable as a landlord. I was thinking in terms of your buying a duplex and renting out half, or even just renting rooms in a single-family home you own.

I agree that Duvall traffic can be horrible, but this is avoidable for a retired person. The cool thing about Duvall is the Snoqualmie Valley rail trail, which runs all the way from Duvall to North Bend. Fantastic. The town itself has maybe two useful stores; the rest is touristy fluff.

halfmoon wrote:

Allagash wrote:@halfmoon

I've been though Monroe many times heading up to Stevens Pass. Those outskirt areas of Seattle are moving up in price quickly and don't have a lot of rental inventory and rents are higher than one might think.

You're absolutely right about that, which makes them desirable as a landlord. I was thinking in terms of your buying a duplex and renting out half, or even just renting rooms in a single-family home you own.

I agree that Duvall traffic can be horrible, but this is avoidable for a retired person. The cool thing about Duvall is the Snoqualmie Valley rail trail, which runs all the way from Duvall to North Bend. Fantastic. The town itself has maybe two useful stores; the rest is touristy fluff.

I'll have to check out the rail trail Duplex and renting rooms are an option. I had roommates from 18-33 yrs old and done with roommates. I just don't people I don't know hanging out in my living room, using the kitchen, bring friends over, etc... Really value my privacy these days.

Duplex can work in the right situation, but I have always found on the west coast it works better in theory than reality. I bought a number of rental town homes cheap 2009-2012 after the RE crash as rentals when I was living in San Diego. I looked at pretty much every 2,3 and 4 unit property in the entire county and they were all overpriced, major fixers, etc.... And this is even at their post crash prices! In theory the duplex should work where rent from the other half makes it cheaper to live in your half than it would be to rent or buy a single unit. I found this wasn't the case. Town homes were cheaper then a duplex even counting the rent. And most of the 2-4's were 60+ years old and money pits. My guess is it might be similar in the Puget Sound area, especially with real estate hot as a pistol here for the last 4-5 years here. Other parts of the U.S. where property prices are much cheaper (esp Midwest), you can pull this off more with owning a duplex and living for free or practically. Also, living in one end of a 2-4 unit, you have to have to live next to your tenants, which can prove difficult during an eviction or some other issue.

Housing situations like duplex's, roommates, etc... worked in my 20's and 30's on the road to ERE, just no longer willing to deal with those housing inconveniences my 40's+. One of the nice things in this life is having a decent place to live, that is peaceful, quiet and no drama

Allagash wrote:
Duplex can work in the right situation, but I have always found on the west coast it works better in theory than reality. I bought a number of rental town homes cheap 2009-2012 after the RE crash as rentals when I was living in San Diego. I looked at pretty much every 2,3 and 4 unit property in the entire county and they were all overpriced, major fixers, etc.... And this is even at their post crash prices! In theory the duplex should work where rent from the other half makes it cheaper to live in your half than it would be to rent or buy a single unit. I found this wasn't the case. Town homes were cheaper then a duplex even counting the rent. And most of the 2-4's were 60+ years old and money pits. My guess is it might be similar in the Puget Sound area, especially with real estate hot as a pistol here for the last 4-5 years here.

We bought a duplex in Monroe a couple of years ago, and the rents more than cover expenses including mortgage principal. We don't live in it, but the tenants are effectively buying it for us. No drama, though on Christmas day I had my hand in a clogged toilet pulling out wads of paper (let's just leave it at that) lodged against a piece of wire stuck in the drain.

It's true that prices have jumped in the last couple of years. I keep looking for another rental property (it's a sickness), and there's nothing in that price range available now.

My father used to urge us to move back to some depressed area in the east where we could buy a house for $30,000. Ummm...no. Like you, I enjoy being near a great* city like Seattle.

*If you don't commute in a car.

I forgot to mention also that IMHO 2009-2012 was a little too early for great real estate deals, at least around here. It took a long time for people to accept the duration of the crash, and a lot of sellers waited for years before giving up. When the banks did repossessions, they typically held the properties on their books at an unrealistic value to avoid the writedown. When we started looking in early 2012, there was very little available at a reasonable price -- and the cheap stuff was horrendous, as you note. We looked at one house whose attic was literally filled with white mold like some sort of spray foam, and another had a huge hole in the living room ceiling with water trickling down.

I don't know quite what happened, but in late 2012 the banks started to release properties in Monroe at good prices. It was a pretty small window of opportunity (maybe a year), and now we're back in the bubble.

I just realized that I've babbled way beyond the original question about moving to a different state. Sorry!

halfmoon wrote:

Allagash wrote:

My father used to urge us to move back to some depressed area in the east where we could buy a house for $30,000. Ummm...no. Like you, I enjoy being near a great* city like Seattle.

*If you don't commute in a car.

Seattle is great and I'd like to stay but it's not worth it to me where the rents and prices are. I will probably stay one more year only because I just moved up here in 2013 (and then moved again out of Seattle 15 miles north to a cheaper apartment again in Jan 2016). So I am just sick of moving for now. For someone who is early retired and didn't buy their house a few years ago and lock in their payment, it isn't a good place to be for housing costs. Even if you bought a long time ago, I know people with paid off houses watching their property taxes go up and up and up. I know a older guy with a paid off house around Seattle but pays $9,000 a year in property taxes and is looking to get out of the area. Another great thing about cheap out of the way type areas to live is not only is the initial purchase price so much cheaper, but the property taxes barely rise over decades, vs. skyrocketing areas like Puget Sound.

Actually I have really come around to the idea of moving back east these days. It doesn't even have to be to a depressed area back east to be cheap, it is so much cheaper everywhere. I grew up in New England but moved to the West Coast for college back in 1988. At this point in my life I wouldn't mind moving back. I have experienced the west for 30 yrs and done so much out here I feel satisfied, I think I could move on. There are also so many states that just don't have the population growth WA State has. Maine for example barely grows, so no traffic, no endless construction and endless change/sprawl that Puget Sound sees. What is happening in WA now reminds me of the hyper growth in CA in the 70's, 80's, 90's.

And as you get older and retired you spend a lot of time at home anyway so it doesn't matter as much where you live IMO. Most decent sized metros have the same grocery shopping, decent airports, entertainment that Puget Sound does. Why live in an area that is exploding in growth, price and traffic? Like the SF Bay Area, Puget Sound is a great place for under 40 year old people who work in tech in make 6 figures, it is not really a great place anymore for early retired people on fixed retirement incomes. But other areas of WA like Bellingham and Vancouver may still be an option for me. Although not cheap, they are a lot cheaper. But both are growing very fast too.

Many areas back east are great places to be a cash flow type rental property investor as well if that is what someone is into. I know a lot of people who do well with that back there. I know a guy in Wisconsin who buys duplex's for in the $30k range and rents them for $500 a side. Can't do that on the west coast.

Allagash wrote:I know a guy in Wisconsin who buys duplex's for in the $30k range and rents them for $500 a side. Can't do that on the west coast.

Can't argue with that. One thing I find priceless about Seattle is the access to cheap and wonderful ethnic restaurants/grocery shopping. If I were just aiming for regional arbitrage in housing, though, I'd definitely focus on depressed areas. After living for 10 years in a depressed area of eastern Washington, we felt...limited. We started dreaming of dim sum, pho and Cambodian food. You can only eat so much beef.

@Allagash,

I also love Maine. I live in Boston and I'm currently looking to buy in Maine. I like North Berwick area or Wells. I don't want to be too far from Portsmouth, NH and Boston so I'd like to stay in the southern half of Maine.

I go up there at least every other weekend from Boston.

I've been tempted to buy acreage and build my own too.

PM me if you'd like to discuss more about Maine.

I live outside Boston and while I was initially looking for housing within MA, the supply-demand balance has jacked up prices a bit too much even in the more remote / less desirable areas. So now I'm thinking the odds are good that I'll be in another state, and I've been thinking up alternative game plans to cut my working time down but still have a safe enough pile of money so I don't have to have a really long commute for multiple years. However as you get closer to FI, a longer commute to get a significantly cheaper house starts to make more economical sense. Especially around Boston where the prices sharply drop off outside the dreaded 1 hour commute mark - I can live with that if it's only for another year or two if it saves me a year of work!

I actually found a particular town that I think is nearly perfect for my idea of ERE. I'll be sure to post about it if we end up moving there, and will encourage others to move there in the hopes that it would be an ERE City contender, but in the meantime I don't want to say where it is for fear that some of you will agree that it's a great ERE town and will start competing for the home we're interested in!

How about a different country?

High rents are forcing people to think outside of the box.
https://youtu.be/BRoo4SKpjfw

The 2BR house in the video that rents for $950/m is 20 miles from my location. There is a very similar house a few blocks from my location that rents for $4200/m. The current wait time in the regular border line is 90 minutes but only 10 minutes in the SENTRI line.

Looks like a good idea although as the report notes it's driving up housing costs for Mexicans who haven't the luxury of geoarbitage. Long term you might want to buy rather than rent to insure against further price rises if more Americans cross the border to live.

Florida is full, if anyone asks.

Also, climate change and all.

Ego wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:54 pm

How about a different country

I've always made the false assumption that a home country (US) home base is my best option. Given the latitude of tourist visas in many central and South American countries I have re-framed my thinking.

I could cut costs by 50%+ and live in better climates. However, there is the carbon/environmental cost added to the extra required travel. Not sure how to reconcile that ethically, other than I enjoy those cultures more as well. Look at my US citizenship as a means to travel and work a few months every year and get very high wages? IDK

Hristo Botev wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:03 am

Florida is full, if anyone asks.

And apparently also on fire. I didn't see that one coming.

classical_Liberal wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:41 pm

I could cut costs by 50%+ and live in better climates. However, there is the carbon/environmental cost added to the extra required travel. Not sure how to reconcile that ethically, other than I enjoy those cultures more as well. Look at my US citizenship as a means to travel and work a few months every year and get very high wages? IDK

I think it's a great idea although I'd want to keep most of my financial assets, especially property, in the more climate resilient north and still continue to accumulate enough to move back north if or when it became necessary. That's kinda what I'm doing.

jacob wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:52 pm

And apparently also on fire. I didn't see that one coming.

Yep; it's a mess. Everyone should definitely look elsewhere. I hear Duluth is the new San Francisco!